Teak Decks
                       from the 
          		            Sailnet Tayana List

    Please don't put Cetol on your teak deck. Leave it natural and scrub it down with a Clorox/soap solution about every three months. Between scrubbing, soak it down with salt water and then wash it off with fresh water when you are back at the dock. If you do this, people will admire you deck and it will stay in good shape.

Best Regards, John M. Campbell								May 2000
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John,
    Yes I am serious about the bleach. A yacht broker/captain gave me the formula. He used it for years on a multi-million dollar yacht and it works beautifully. The worst enemy of teak is mold and the small amount of bleach in the solution kills the mold. Once the deck dries, It has a very consistent teak color and gradually bleaches out to a nice silver. I use a 3M-scrub pad which has a handle. I first wet down the deck with water and scrub a small area using the solution. I then rinse that area and continue this process until finished. Make sure you rinse the boat well after scrubbing the deck and avoid getting the solution on your lines. The solution I use consist of one cup of bleach and 1/2 cup of dish washing liquid per gallon of water. 

    I see no reason why you shouldn't lightly sand your deck to remove the rough spots. 

Best Regards, John M. Campbell								May 2000
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    DO NOT SCRUB WITH THE GRAIN! Use a very soft brush, and go across the grain.  Teak has a high oil content, but the pith between the longitudinal dense wood is very soft. Even an ordinary brush will tear it out. I also would avoid Clorox.  It is very harsh on the pith.  Similarly, the various teak cleaners are loaded with high concentrations of oxalic acid. It is probably OK for a very rare cleaning, but don't use it on a regular basis.

    A friend who had been on a Navy boat during the second war told me that they had teak decks, and would wash it down with salt water each day, and then rub it with a hollystone (whatever the hell that might be!). The salt water would both clean it and prevent growth of fungus. The hollystone apparently served to smooth it without excavating the pithy soft wood. I understand this is the long regarded way of taking care of teak. Avoid washing with fresh water. Salt water is also an excellent preservative. It is sweetwater that causes rot. Consider how long lasting are the big beams in a salt mill. Those massive beams were widely sought after for boat construction as they were so soaked in high salt levels that no micro-organisms could survive in that environment. It is as good as creosote, but without the mess.

    But do not scrub with the grain as a routine procedure. You will badly deteriorate your teak deck. Soap and a very soft brush are OK. There are many soaps that do well in salt water.

Harvey	Karten											May 2000
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    From personal experiences I can describe a holystone! It is a very large, round lava stone with a hole in the middle. A large, well-worn stick goes in the middle and the crew swishes it back and forth with the grain of the deck. The chief deck ape (boatswain) chants, and the stone is swished back and forth by the crew to the tempo of the chant. A solid stream of salt water is paid on the deck as the stone is swished and detergent is thrown in. It is fun if you are watching and not doing.

    I don't think there is enough room on my Tayana to carry an official holystone and I wouldn't look forward to working for the chief deck ape again! I love teak decks because of the many different opinions that they create. I would use the bleach if it were me and scrub in a circular motion with a Scotchbrite...........oh well!!!

Hilleym@											May 2000
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    Do not use brushes on your teak!!! It will take out the softer part of the grain. Wash with salt water, use a little bleach if there is mildew. Light sanding if you want it brown. A good teak oil to maintain the brown.

    If you don't care about the teak being brown, wash with salt water and use plastic scrub pads. no brush. Leave the salt water to dry. The salt is somewhat hygroscopic so the teak will not dry out excessively. Remember, when teak was the real deck on older ships the treatment was holystoning and salt water wash.

Earl Potter											May 2000
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    I hope you have had time to check out the ftp site to see first hand what a wet core looks like and the type of project you are looking at. You might consider taking it to a yard in Canada where the exchange rate is good and have the work done. :-) It took me 5 months of hard labor. One thing I will say is that everybody says teak is expensive, but so is Awlgrip. The paint costs as much as bottom paint. The labor involved in Awlgripping a deck properly is not to be under estimated. 2-3 coats primer and 3-5 coats of Awlgrip. Doing non-skid is not easy. However, personally I still would not use teak.

    I realize at this point that I may be echoing others but that's because we agree. If your surveyor found delamination and moisture, you can expect to find the type of core damage you see in my pictures. The wood turns black and will rot. I think you mentioned chain plates and Sampson posts as areas that leak. That's what I had plus stanchions and deck hardware, scuppers and bulwarks and ports. The fore deck was badly delaminated and wet because of the Sampson posts and bow railing leaks. As were both side decks from the chain plates and bulwarks etc. Also when you are on a long wet tack, heeled over, the water collects along the deck/cabin side and  sits there until you tack. Maybe it gets in along the wood strip or deck cabin joint. Anyway, the water and fungus will eventually rot the core and the decks will continue to delaminate, especially with temperature swings below freezing.

    So, you can either ignore it, (many people do and I am not making judgments) but I don't think that is a good thing for a couple reasons: if your going off shore you should make the decks strong plus water may eventually get into the cabin and rot bulkheads, which definitely affects the structural integrity. Or you can fix it.  Are you doing coastal or off shore work?

    I did not have teak decks. The extent of the damage was easily determined. The severity of the damage cannot ever be fully realized until you actually take the teak off plus the top skin. Some people drill lots of holes in the headliner to take core samples or to let the water out. That maybe ok to determine if you have a problem but not to determine the full extent of it.. You may be able to repair a section from underneath, I did that in my anchor locker but it is not easy to work upside down. For small areas, it's ok. But in your case the teak needs to be dealt with anyway.  After seeing the amount of water in my core I am convinced that it would be very difficult to dry it out by drilling holes and blowing hot air in the holes. Could you ever be sure it was really dry? I realize there are differing opinions and methods here. In any case, if your moisture meter is going through the roof, so to speak, you have very wet core. In your case the teak may make it harder to determine moisture content because wood reads wet. But from what you said about all the missing bungs and the leaks in other places, I would suspect lots of water in the core especially if there is delamination. You can see from my photos that the core makes for natural canals, voids and dams. Water will travel.

    I would think that since you lost half your bungs already that the teak is getting thin and can not be reused, plus it will be damaged when you remove it. There are lots of holes for water to get in. If I was going off shore in that boat I would remove all the teak and see what was under it.

Especially since you know you have delamination. Some people think the decks are strong enough even though they are delaminated and they may be right but that's only part of the equation. What if your bulkheads start getting wet? One thing is for sure, you have to stop the water.  

    I would not put teak back on because of cost, ecology, and maintenance, plus if you ever have deck problems again, you are right back where you started not knowing what's under them and having to get them up ( I know someone who used a planer to remove teak decks).  If I you do put teak back on, think about using epoxy to glue them down. Don't put all those screw holes back in your new deck. Don't use a brittle epoxy, but that's a whole another topic. (great grammar).

    Let me know if you need more.

Ray Slaninka	S/V Lorna Doone							       December 2000
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    If I use a thin epoxy between the seams of teak straking on the deck to obtain a bond between the teak and the underlying.... (whatever is left of the original goo?), will that be troublesome as the boat works in a seaway? Even the heavy lay-up of the Tayana 37 shows some flex.

    Will the epoxy serve to further limit access of the saltwater to the stainless screws, which causes some of the loosening, and the black staining of ferritic oxidation of stainless?

Harvey											         October 2001
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Harvey
    Having just put down a new teak deck I have some knowledge on this. The key to keeping the water out of the area between the bottom of the teak and the glass deck is in the caulking.

    When recaulking the sealant manufacturers recommend coating the slot with a special light epoxy then laying down a thin strip of 3M tape in the bottom of the slot, the tape should be as close to the width of the slot as possible.

    Next the sealant is applied whether it be polysulphide or the more modern polyurethane based products. Polysulphide lasts longer but takes longer to cure, polyurethane's have better adherence qualities and cure faster.

    The theory behind the tape in the bottom of the slot prevent stressing the sealant from 3 sides. As the temperature changes or the boat moves the sealant is much more likely to keep its bond to the sides of the slot if it is not bonded to the bottom of the slot.

    I chose the 3M teak seam sealant and primer as polysulphides are not available here. If I had the choice I might still go polyurethane due to its adherence qualities.

Bill Moloney	Kara Rose	 #34							          October 2001
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Rich, thanks for your info on making the caulk removal tool and the necessary medications and precautions, etc.:) 

    In searching the web I found the following web site which has excellent instructions on recaulking a teak deck. I highly recommend that those contemplating this chore check it out. The web site is www.yandina.com/TeakDeck.htm#Background . 

    Also, at the above web site there is a reference to Fein tools and their new Teak Blades for fast removal of polyurethane sealant. If you have a Fein tool already, as I do, I hope the new Teak blades will fit and will let you all know. I will contact Fein on Monday. If you own a boat with lots of wood you could not own a better tool than the Fein. I have used one for years and it does many tasks and has many accessories. Now I can remove caulking from teak decks fast and easy! There must be a God! Anyway, you can check out the Fein Multimaster tool and the teak blades (found in the section called Cutting Blades in the index) at the following web site: http://feinus.com/p/newmultimaster/multimaster-VS-XL.htm and hopefully this could be the tool that will make maintaining the teak decks much easier. I'm going for the teak blades ASAP and if need be I'll get a new tool if the blades don't fit my old Fein. 

    I hope these blades really work and if they do as advertised it would sure help all of us trying to keep up our gorgeous teak decks. If anyone has any experience with the Fein and the new Teak Blades please let us know how it worked and what you think.

Regards, John Keefe 	ODYSSEA 						                    December 2001

(2005:  try also)
www.jamestowndistributors.com/product;part;5389;process;search;ID;,Tools,Power.Tools,Fein.Power.Tools,Fein.Multimaster,Fein.Multimaster.MSXE
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    The Fein tool that I have used for years is used mostly for sanding tight corners, etc., using the triangular sanding pad with Velcro so that the sand paper (also with Velcro) is easily changed from grit to grit. Then, I often use the round saw blade which is a 3 1/8" diameter metal disc with small teeth all around the circumference and its cuts neatly and cleanly through plastic, fiberglass, wood, etc. I love it. The part number is #6-35-02-097-02-7. It has been invaluable.

    Monday or Tuesday this week, I ordered the Teak Blade #6-39-03-202-01-9 which digs out a gap 5 mm across. I thought I would give this size a try. It is shaped in a "U" shape. I called and talked to a Fein engineer and he said that using the Teak Blade will work real good but, even better, using the above saw blade on the edges of the gap or bead of caulk and then use the Teak Blade would be ideal. So, that is what I plan to try. I should have the Teak Blade in 1 to 2 weeks as my local Fein tool distributor didn't have it in stock. Once I get all the caulk out of all the seams I'll then use my Dermal Tool with a 1/4" rotary bit to enlarge all the gaps to 1/4" wide. It does a good job of it. I think wider gaps are better than narrow ones and I did this to the forward hatch and companionway main hatch and it looks good and more caulking in the gap will hold up much better. 

    Note that the Fein tools and accessories are pricey and not cheap. But, don't hesitate as they are of first rate quality and will last. You get what you pay for when it comes to tools. Before I bought the Fein sander I burned out 2 cheap models of another brand and finally the place where I buy my tools persuaded me to by the Fein. I'm glad they convinced me. It has been dropped, slammed, used hours and hours and still works like new. Just for the record I'm in no way connected to Fein, etc. It's good stuff.  Let us know how you make out with Fein. 

Regards, John Keefe	Odyssea						     	       December 2001
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    I've seen many projects where people recommend cutting/drilling holes and then letting the sun dry it out. I use a wet/dry vacuum to determine how much water is there and for most of the removal. The hotter the sun, the more a teak deck swells and pushes out the water. A good vacuum will remove water at a prodigious rate...

Wayne Strausbaugh	V-42 	C/C	RESTLESS						January 2002
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    At the Fein web site, main page, click on the button called "Cutting" located on the left side of the page. It will take you to the below page. 

http://feinus.com/multimaster/newimages/newcutting.htm

    Go to the bottom of the page and find "TEAK BLADES" and there are 3 sizes available and I bought the 5 MM wide one, part no. 6-39-03-202-01-9. You may have to have it ordered in for you. 

Regards, John Keefe 	ODYSSEA								January 2002
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    Go to the main page of the web site again and the one Fein tool called the Fein MultiMaster Start is the basic tool with some accessories. That is the one or you can get the battery powered one. They all take the attachments or accessories that are available. 

    Then go to the left of the main page and click on the index button called "Cutting." Go to the end of that page and you'll find "Teak Blades." There are three widths and I chose the 5MM wide one. 

    Also, go to the Tayana FTP site and look for the folder "Odyssea's Fein Tool" and you will see pictures of my Fein Tool (a few years old) with the attached Teak Blade. 

    Hope this helps. If not just let me know. 

Regards, John Keefe	ODYSSEA 								January 2002
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    Because of a recent mention of using the Fein Multimaster with handy-dandy de-caulking blade, I scooted out yesterday and invested in the tool. Yippee!  It really does what everyone said it did, and then some! I used the 3mm de-caulking blade and it made very short work of the old teak caulk. Oh sure, I still needed to touch up places here and there but by and large it's an amazing tool. 

    Today I got the idea to use the buffing pad with a little Flitz metal polishing compound on a few stanchion mounts. Yippee again!

    Thanks to everyone for the suggestions. I'm finding a LOT of great information on the list. 

All the best -- John Kalpus	Prudence					   	        February 2002
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    Unfortunately, we now have to replace some bungs on deck. What is the best caulk/adhesive to use when replacing them?

Bill Truxall											May 2002
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    I am mixing small amounts of cold cure epoxy and dipping the bung before inserting. Do get one of those bung saws ( teeth only on one side ) at Sears etc...wonderful ...rather than chipping of the excess bung.

Denis		S/V Tayana									May 2002
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    Some people suggest using resorcinol glue. Said to have excellent waterproofing ability.  I have used a bit of life-caulk sealant with decent results. A sharp chisel, followed by sandpaper helps smooth it down to an even finish.

regards, Harvey										May 2002
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   Try Borden's plastic resin glue. It comes in powder, mixes with water to your own required consistency, you pick it up at a hardware store, several hours pot life and damn close to teak in color.

Bob												May 2002
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    We use either epoxy of Cetol. Some suggest varnish to seal bungs. I also use a chisel followed by sanding.

Joe Sprouse	Sojourn - Now with a mast.....						May 2002
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    Perhaps the easiest might be one of the polyurethane glues like Gorilla Glue. They are completely waterproof, slightly gap filling, and strong as he##.  All you would do is dip the bung in H2O smear on the glue and insert. Not near the terrible mess and short working time of epoxy, nor as toxic as resorcinol also limited pot life. Excess cleans off easily.

Author unknown										May 2002
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    Yes it is. Veritas also makes a beauty of this tool. You could find it at a woodworking store. They may also be called a cut-off saw. They do not always have teeth on just one side. The important thing is no set to the teeth on the side touching the woodwork.

John Reynolds											May 2002
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     I just received a flyer from Woodcraft yesterday. In it was exactly what you are talking about. English Flush Cutting Saw, item # 126296, $14.99. www.Woodcraft.com.  Hope this helps.

John Reynolds											May 2002
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Joe: Thanks for the URL. Jamestown has a flexible bladed Japanese dovetail saw with a 0.02" kerf which they say works well with flush cuts of bungs. (Item # SS102204 -- $14.63) I've dealt with Jamestown in the past, and believe they are a good outfit. 

Dayton Eckerson										May 2002
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Happy Sailing Friends...
    Prudence's teak decks are looking a bit dingy over the years with black stains and a mottled appearance. I use a freshwater wash frequently on the decks and always notice a dark residue coming off the surface. The decks now are a salt and pepper dark gray color.

    I though I'd put together an oxalic acid rinse and see what happens. I mixed up a batch of about 1/2 cup acid to 1 gallon water, as per the West Marine Oxalic Acid instructions. Luckily, I tried it only on a hatch cover of about one square foot.
 
    I couldn't believe my eyes!!! The dark steaks IMMEDIATELY washed away and when the wood dried I was left with a light brown teak surface completely free of dinginess. It looks now like I've spent hours sanding the deck.
 
    So now I'm wondering if I've damaged the teak at all - or removed all the helpful teak oils in the process, or have I simply discovered what every teak-deck-owner knows?
 
     Oh, let me in to the Inner Teak Knowledge Circle, wise sailors that you are. Also, should I now be concerned with "oiling" my soon-to-be completely oxalic-acidized teak decks????
 
Fair winds...	John Kalpus	 Prudence CT37	San Diego				August 2002
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    I use a wash of TSP – trisodiumphosphate - to etch the teak surface, then apply oxalic to bleach it. I do this every 18 months.  The TSP will actually dissolve the surface 'gray' (a few thousandths) and the oxalic will effect the bleaching but not so much destruction as the TSP.

    The TSP does loosen a few bungs .... but that’s what I’m looking for: loose bungs that need to be resealed/replaced.  TSP and then Oxalic is an very aggressive chemical etch, almost to the aggressiveness of the use of a belt sander. But then I change my tee-shirts occasionally and don’t let them get 'gray' either. ;-)

Rich Hampel											August 2002
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    Thanks for all the great information regarding cleaning the teak decks on Prudence. After careful thought, I tried Gary's suggestion above using his recipe of detergent, bleach and water. Yes, this did clean up some of the 25+ years of debris on the decks. Unfortunately, I felt that it didn't clean it up enough. So....I used a mild mixture of Oxalic acid and water, and, after wetting down the whole deck and hull, I lightly scrubbed the mixture into the decking and then liberally rinsed off the whole deck. It worked like a charm! Prudence's decks are now (mostly) clean, the acid didn't raise the grain perceptibly, and I only lost one bung that should have come out anyway. 

    One note, DON'T bother buying the acid at West Marine, unless you've got money to burn. It's not that it's really expensive at WM, about $10 for a 16 ounce container, it's just that you can probably find it at a ship's chandlery for about $2.50 / pound as I did at Downwind Marine in San Diego. 

    Incidentally, oxalic acid also nicely cleans up any stains on fiberglass from rust, etc. It won't hurt fiberglass at all. 

    I'll be posting a few pics on the TOG website shortly. 

John Kalpus 	Prudence	 CT37 		San Diego 				       September 2002
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    I am striping all of my exterior teak and have noticed that one of the handrails is loose in a few spots. Can someone suggest the best way to remove and the replace the teak plugs that cover the screws? Does it require any special tools? Also, should I use 5200 to rebed the hand rail or polysulfide?
 
Alan Jett	 Peace and Quiet	 #499						       September 2002
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    Take a small thin screwdriver and with the blade of the screwdriver aligned with the grain of the plug tap the driver until the plug splits. Make several splits into the plug to break it up. Carefully remove (with dental pick, etc.) the remaining plug that adheres to the bore of the hole. Remove the attachment screw. Trim the hole with a 3/8" diameter "counterbore" (available at woodworking supply like Jamestown, Sears, etc.) Reset the screw, caulk, etc. Apply and wet the bore of the hole with VARNISH, soak the plug in varnish and apply the plug to the hole while aligning the grain of the plug with the grain of the rail. Tap the plug into the hole until seated.  Take a razor sharp chisel (with the bevel down) and knock off the top of the plug so that there is about 1/8" of plug sticking out of the hole, this will establish which way the grain is laying horizontally - there will one side that is a bit higher than the other; from the lower end take the chisel and slowly slice/shave the plug flat to the surface.  Most times if the chisel is razor sharp, you won’t have to sand the surface. 

    DONT USE epoxy, polyester, 5200 to set the plug (unless the plug is less than 3/16" deep).... as you wont be able to remove it later without a lot of destruction to the hole: tear-outs, cracks, chips etc. 

    Tayana plugs are mostly 3/8" diameter. The plugs offered by WEST and Boat/US are constructed with a slight bore taper and will fit very tightly when reinstalled. If you have a lot of plugs to reseat, consider to buy a plug cutter from Jamestown, etc. and make your own. 

Rich Hampel										       September 2002
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    I have taken to washing off the stainless with fresh water, as I found the same thing. I also try to avoid washing canvas with salt water, as the dried crystals of salt are not good for the cloth. However, salt water is excellent preservative for teak, abolishes growth of the black mold and actually improves the appearance. The washdown is certainly helpful for washing off the crud from the anchor, as you point out.
 
    The traditional treatment of teak decks was salt water wash and rubbing it down with a holystone. This method was used for many generations, and even was used by the U.S. Navy on many of their teak decked boats during WW II.

Harvey	 Karten										       September 2002
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Hi Harvey,
    Yes salt water was the traditional treatment for teak, due to the chlorine content. However, try the Clorox treatment and you will be amazed at the result.

    A Little Hindsight - Prior to WWII the standard practice for bad wounds was to amputate or cauterize. Since penicillin was massed produced by the Army effort, treatments have changed. Every day is a NEW day!

    The Tide - Clorox treatment was taught to me by the builder of Burger King restaurants. Met him sailing in Mexico.

:>) Jim Clemens	s/v "Athena"							       September 2002
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Jim,
    How much free chlorine is contained in salt water? I had the probably erroneous impression that there is very little free chlorine in salt water.  The action of Chlorox, I thought, was due to the presence of free hypochlorite. Doesn't that transfer a free oxygen radical to "clean" things by oxidation? It's been a while since I worked in chemistry, but I had some vague recollections of some such action.

    Perhaps the salt water works as it evaporates and produces a very high salinity solution which causes most organisms to die off (as in the Great Salt Lake and in the Dead Sea). I suspect that there must be an expert chemist in our group who can help clarify this. In fact, I might be somewhat hesitant to use too strong a solution of Clorox on the decks, as it may cause damage to both the user and the decks.

Harvey											       September 2002
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    Harvey, weren't you the one that warned about using oxalic acid? I used it without gloves or long sleeves last year and for the first time in my life had a kidney stones problem...I wonder if the oxalic acid caused them. 

Dan											      September 2002
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Dan, 
    Oxalic acid, if not immediately fatal, can cause calcific deposits in renal tubules, but that is usually the least of the victims problems. I don't know if it can produce the larger kidney stones (calculi) that you may have experienced. That might be coincidental. It may be possible, but that is out of my realm of experience. You might search the web for info on that. I also suggest that you consult a toxicologist. 

    Oxalic is highly toxic. It binds blood calcium, causing it to fall to fatal levels. I think that the widely described alkali springs in the desert that caused water starved drinkers to quench themselves and die, was due to the high oxalate levels. 

    It is an EXTREMELY dangerous material to use, and I suggest that anyone planning to use it, read the following: 
http://157.98.10.135/NTP_Reports/NTP_Chem_HS_HTML/NTP_Chem1/Radian144-62-7.html 

    The fact that it is so freely available should not be construed to mean that it is safe. It should be used with respirator, Neoprene gloves, and possibly Tyvek suit. People with history of seizure disorders may be particularly vulnerable. It is absorbed through the skin. 

    My view is that it would be safer to have slightly dirty teak decks. But this touches on the very broad area of toxic substances on a boat. I am one of many who are guilty of failing to exercise adequate caution. Just a few examples of things I have foolishly done over the past year include painting in the bilge using urethane paint and without a respirator. Using varnish stripper on a calm day without a respirator (and that was outdoors!) with a resulting headache, nausea, etc. Removing varnish with heat gun without a respirator. This doesn't even come close to the more obvious stupidities such as trying to lift a golf cart battery from a bad angle and failing to use a proper lifting tool - risking dropping and spilling sulfuric acid, as well potentially damaging my back. Cutting fiberglass with a jigsaw without mask and special clothing, resulting in glass dust in skin, hair, lungs, etc. And that's just on the boat! (I'm actually far more careful in the lab, where I know the consequences of exposure to dangerous materials.) 

    There is little doubt but that a boat is dangerous to your health. We like to think that it will get us outdoors in a healthy environment. 

Harvey J. Karten, M.D.     Dept. of Neurosciences    UCSD				      September 2002
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    I've had the most success removing bungs by drilling a hole that is slightly smaller than the bung and then worrying the rest of the bung out with a small screwdriver or nut pick. I have damaged the area around the hole when I tried to remove the bung by backing out the screw underneath it so I don't recommend that method.

    When you replace the bung, put a thin coat of whatever you are going to refinish the handrail with on the bung, align its grain carefully with that of the rail and tap it home. Use a very sharp chisel to trim it. Sand, refinish and you're done.

Coleman Blake	Traveler	T-37 #328					        January 2003
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    I have purchased lumber and plywood from these people several times and have been please. They ship UPS ground.

    Boulter Plywood Corp.	www.boulterplywood.com

Alan Jett											April 2003
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    I have been using a mix of teak oils to get longevity and even wear on my teak decks. It seems to work just as well on my teak outboard-motor storage mounts. And it shows absolutely no wear from walking on it. This concoction should work on trim as well. It is half Teak Wonder and half Semco Natural. It lasts 4 to 6 months before touchup is needed but, more importantly, it wears away rather evenly without blotching. 

    For the last year, I have been experimenting with adding some Olympic deck stain to the mix - maybe 20 to 25 per cent (semi-transparent, caramel color). Adds a little reddish hue like fresh teak, seems to last as long if not a little longer, and seems to wear off evenly.

(2005 Update:  See “Decks_Teak_Oil_Test” on the FTP site at http://tognews.com/ftpfiles/  for the latest teak oil used and the results of an 18-month test.)

Wayne	Strausbaugh	V-42	C/C	RESTLESS						June 2003
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    Here is a good web site for some information on recaulking your teak decks: 
http://www.yandina.com/TeakDeck.htm 

    Also, the Fein Multimaster tool (http://feinus.com) used with the caulking removal bits (Teak Blades) works very good. Fein tools are pricey but worth it in my opinion. I have yet to start in earnest to attack the entire deck caulking (finishing up other projects) but have used it to completely recaulk the hatches and it works great. I couldn't imagine doing it any other way. Check out the Fein web site and note all the accessories for the tool. The bits work by slicing through the caulk and lifting it out of the groove. The bits come in 3 different widths (3mm, 4mm, and 5mm) and I bought all three as there are different widths of caulk on my boat. You can even make the grooves wider up to about 1/4 inch wide as it can slice through the teak, too. I plan on making them all 5mm wide if possible but there may be some that will be narrow. You have to get the hang of the tool but once you do it sure beats doing it the old way. Jamestown Distributors (www.jamestowndistributors.com) has all the Fein stuff as well as other distributors of boat building and woodworking supplies who carry tools. 

    Also, check out Don Casey's book, "Sailboat Hull & Deck Repair" for some good basic bung repair procedures as well as replacing planks, etc. 

Regards, John Keefe	CT37	Odyssea	Youngstown, NY				June 2003
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    In just doing our cockpit and spray hood/hatch cover, I bent the tang of a file 90 degrees and sharpened the edge and taped the file for a handle. This removes seam sealer with the price of a replacement file, it was needed anyway. Yup, takes a little elbow grease. Possibly, if we had the entire deck to contend with, a more modern convenience might have been used. My cash priorities are a little different. http://www.boatlife.com/howto.htm describes in detail the guidelines for replacing teak seam sealer.

Joe Sprouse	Sojourn									June 2003
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    We used the two part life caulk teak seam sealer. Open the can from the bottom with a can opener so as to not lose any of the catalyst. As the directions say, fills about 2 1/2 caulk tubes. On a hot day, keep the reserve filled tubes in a cool place on top of the beer. Overfill the seams slightly as it will flow into the seam. We found it easy to work with. The hatch, spray hood and cockpit took 2 quarts. A few days later, we wet back with a new tube of one part to catch the "holidays". We then sanded the old weathered teak and it looks great. Keep in mind, everything is relative.

Joe Sprouse	Sojourn									June 2003
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    Hello all.  I have a CT 37 that needs some recaulking on deck. What does everyone use to remove old caulking? A straight screwdriver, a file, what? 

Thanks, Paul, 	S/V Renaissance	St Helens, OR					     September 2003
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Hi Paul, et al...
    You'll hear this from many people: invest about $160-$200 in a Fein Multimaster electric tool as well as ~$30 each for the 3,4 and/or 5mm caulk removing blade. The Fein tool is an electric tool which vibrates the attached blades/saws/scrapers, etc. Instead of rotating a blade with the commensurate dust, the Fein oscillates side to side and will ease the old caulk nicely out if its channel.

    You can learn more at: 
http://www.feinus.com/p/newmultimaster/MultiMaster.htm

    I purchased mine locally in San Diego at the Tool Depot for around $160, mas o menos.

    Additionally, there are many different types of attachments for the fine, notably the sanding attachments. I use mine all the time on Prudence for sanding wood and fiberglass. There is also a nifty "finger" sanding attachment which allows for sanding in betwixt all those many louvers on locker doors.

    The caulking attachments are costly, around $25-40 each, but very strong.  They should last a good long time. Good luck!

    Don't forget to check the Sailnet TOG website for photos. I know there's a few pics of the Fein tool in action. ftp://ftp.sailnet.com/Tayana/

John Kalpus	Prudence	Tayana 37	San Diego				       September 2003 
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    Fein also makes a cordless version which I bought in the Spring.  I love this tool for working on the boat. Buy an extra battery and you've cut the cord for good.  I bought mine at 7 Corners Hardware in St Paul MN. They also go by Tools On Sale. http://www.7corners.com .  I leave the cord version at home (most umph) and use the cordless on the boat.

Bruce											      September 2003
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    I am having my first go with teak decks also. The yard that made some other repairs said to use 5-minute epoxy. I checked every bung for looseness and replaced over 200 or so with epoxy. I then removed the excess bung, faired it flush with a wood chisel and then sanded it lightly with a little fine grit. Right or wrong, it seemed to work ok. The trawler next door with teak decks questioned whether the bungs would remove easy. I had to redo a couple and dug the new epoxy out with a sharp awl. Not easy, but doable. I notice one or two new bungs popped back out and the new epoxy is still there. Apparently water tight. Don't know why yet. I will have to dig it out and redo it with new epoxy again. The caulking is still fair and will probably last the winter. 

    What next? I was told to sand carefully across the grain to remove the ridges.  Let me know what you decide to do.

Bill	S/V Marissa	Tayana		V-42	 cc					      September 2003
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    I have drilled out and set new screws over about 20% of my deck and am now ready to plug the holes with teak bungs. My question: what do I use to "glue" the plugs in place? I have heard two radically different techniques: varnish and epoxy. Are either of these worth considering. Epoxy should last, but will not be easily replaceable in the future. Will varnish hold?  Is there something else I should consider?

Mark Handley										       September 2003
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    For bung holes greater of depth than 1/4", use varnish. For holes less than ¼”, use epoxy or polyester.

Rich Hampel										       September 2003
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    Thanks for all the suggestions on gluing teak bungs. I did it today - I used varnish as I had plenty of teak to recess the screws fairly deep = and the varnish seems to be holding quite well as I chipped off the excess = bung. I plan to sand the entire deck as it has worn quite badly and unevenly. Then what??? I don't want something that will take lots of time maintaining. Another boater here suggested sealing with Semco. Others = say to leave it gray. Any thoughts on this next step???

Mark	Handley									       September 2003
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    I would not recommend doing the decks with Semco. Semco does react with the deck caulking, causing it to crack (possibly because it makes it brittle). I learned this the hard way in the teak cockpit of a prior Ta Yang-built boat I owned.

    Regarding those asking about Cetol compatibility with teak deck calk, Similar to other reports I've seen in recent posts I can agree -- no problems with Cetol. The prior owner of our boat had used Cetol on their deck, and we've continued for the last 4 years. No problems whatsoever so far.

Bill Rohde										       September 2003
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    Uneven grain isn't really a detriment. Proud growth rings will be a better foot holding pattern than a deck that is flat sanded. If you are totally recaulking, then and only then IMHO should you flat sand the deck. The purpose of the flat sanding is only to gain a good masking line for the caulk!

    If what you're looking for is a 'good looking' deck. Don’t sand, simply etch the deck with trisodium phosphate (TSP) to remove the gray (need to use a bronze wool pad (and the judicious use of a scraper) to take off the high spots, followed by a bleach with oxalic acid (followed by a reinstallation of loose bungs). The result will be a deck that looks new but will have the proud growth ring patterns that will be the best anti-skid.  Difficulty is that the bare teak will soon return to gray.  If you seal or add an oil finish or Semco or Cetol, etc. ... you might as well wear ice skates.

    The best to keep a deck from turning gray (and with tight fitting bungs) is a daily splash of salt water or to scatter salt crystals.  With my boat right now I don’t sail every day and I do like a good-looking deck (I don’t wear grungy gray tee shirts either). I am seriously contemplating using a thin hydrophobic but vapor permeable deck cover that will roll up easily into a very small package. It’s the same stuff used on ultra-fine automobile covers, called Nextec. For a few bucks I can sew up a deck cover for each side with Velcro fasteners for the stanchions etc., roll it into a small ball when sailing, have good looking decks without the destruction of constant sanding, etching etc.  This winter I will build a cover for the cockpit seats and try it for a while and let everyone know how it turns out. I use a Nextec cover for my sports car: its breathable, protects the surface from UV, is machine washable and rolls up into a small ball when stored sounds exactly like what I need for my teak deck!. 

    Don’t oil, don’t seal ..... only thing left is to cover!

Rich Hampel									                  September 2003
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    We used the Teak Decking Caulk in a tube. Seems to work well. Mask the edges, apply with a caulking gun, and remove masking. We applied the caulking 'proud', then after curing trimmed it off with a razor blade laid flat. Sliced one continuous cut and did not 'whittle' it down.

Michael Kahler	S/V Liberation		T37PH					       January 2004
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    I am very interested to see how you used the laminate trimmer and flex wood batten in removing the caulk from your decks.

    I've ordered the back issue of DIY but in the meantime could you elaborate a little on the use of the batten?

    Finally, what caulking did you select? I know you probably answered these questions in the DIY article but for those just curious and those who just can't wait, you answers would be most appreciated.

John Keefe	Odyssea	CT37	Youngstown, NY					March 2004
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John,
    We used a narrow (about 1/2" wide) strip cut from a 1/4" thick 4'x8' sheet of oakum plywood liberated from a nearby boat builder. This batten took a smooth curve when tacked in an adjacent seam as a guide for the laminate trimmer. The batten was held in place with 1/2" brass brads, about one every linear foot.

    I'd be happy to post some pictures at the FTP site if you can tell me how to do it.
 
    I used BoatLife's two-part, pourable caulk. It's easy to work with and readily available. My DIY article describes the whole process step-by-step and includes a list of materials/tools (including costs) and estimated times. For additional information, visit http://www.boatlife.com/howto.htm

Sue Canfield											March 2004

(See Sue’s detailed article on teak deck refinishing at http://tognews.com/ftpfiles/Decks_TeakTherapy_SueCanfield/ )

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    One of the continuing problems on a many boats, is leakage around the chainplates. In the case of the Tayana 37, it results in water intrusion into the lockers, but even more damaging, leakage into the gusset containing the studs and plywood filler.

    Previous notes commented on removing the chainplates and finding some fibrous material under the caulking. This was almost certainly packing used to hold the caulking in place as it cured. But a fundamental problem was the lack of a decent caulking compound appropriate to the task. Chainplates work back and forth and from side to side. Choice of suitable caulking plays a major role in effecting a long term solution to the problem of leakage.
 
    In a recent thread, some people suggested using Silaprene, from Uniroyal, with reportedly favorable results. Part of the difficulty is obtaining it, and I couldn't find data on its durability in a marine environment (salt, sun, high pressure bearing, stretch).

    While recently re-caulking our decks, I started to use TDS (Teak Decking Systems) SIS 440. This is an oxime rubber with a small amount of silicone.  In discussions with the company, they state that it provides 400% stretch and still remains intact and flexible. They claim durability of about 20 years. It is very easy to use, as it flows easily, is easily forced into gaps with a simple putty knife, the initial curing forms a skin within 5-7 minutes (so you have to remove the tape immediately), and has a good level of curing within 24 hours. It can be sanded easily. If you have to add more of the caulking, sand it, groove it slightly with a knife or razor blade, wash with acetone, and add more caulking for a good bond. It sticks to metal, fiberglass, wood, with excellent tenacity. After packing the gap around the chainplate, some additional material can be placed on the deck to bed the chain plate Stainless Steel cover plate.

    I spoke with the factory rep again about its suitability for chainplates and he said that it should be quite good for that, and is also gaining wider usage as a bedding compound for deck hardware.

    Although it is moderately pricey ($13-20 for a 10 Oz. cartridge, price depending upon local suppliers choice), it is readily available at many marine chandleries (e.g. San Diego Marine Exchange on Shelter Island, Jamestown Distributors). There are other brands now on the market with a similar chemistry available from Jamestown. I don't know if the Boat-Life Silicone Deck Sealant is of the same composition. The price is about the same, but there is no information on the tube or the website. It can be cut or carved with a sharp razor, but best to tape around the deck before using.  It is available in black and white. I don't know if the white material tends to yellow with age.

    It will take only a short time to find out if it forms a good seal, but several years to learn if it lasts.

    I plan to use it to re-bed our chain plates this weekend. (More on the chainplates on another occasion).

regards, Harvey									         October 2004
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Harvey,
    Yikes,....I cringe every time I here the word "silicone"! I swore I would never.... ever... use it on any of my stuff, again. I found that you can never remove all the remnants of normal silicone without eventually having to sand it off. It is so difficult to completely remove from a surface. Also, it just gives up its grip over time.

    However, does the material texture of the TDS look and feel as silicone when cured? Initially, does it adhere to a surface tenaciously and upon it's removal leave that difficult to remove residue like regular silicone? Can you remove the residue with mineral spirits or acetone? I am very interested to see how you like it over a long period of time and specifically how it holds up to the elements. I have heard many good things about the stuff but still used the 2 Part Boat Life Seam Sealant when re-caulking my deck. I paid about $35.00 a quart and each quart filled up ~2.75 empty 10 oz. cartridges or tubes. The price seems about the same per 10-oz tube.  If it works to seal up chain plates and lasts for 2 to 3 years that would be just darn terrific.

    Just for chuckles, I had a friend tell me that he coats all his chain plate caulking with that liquid black electrical sealing compound. The stuff that is in the small can and used to coat electrical terminals to waterproof them, etc. He says his chain plates do not leak because every so often he just coats the caulking with this stuff.

    Also, I bought some of that Rapid Coat stain/sealer for teak. I tried it on a piece of bare teak and it has all the application properties and look of a polyurethane type product, that is, a high "artificial" gloss. The pigment in it gives it a brown hue, too. It still doesn't compare 100% to a top of the line varnish, of course, but it is not bad. However, I might be crazy, but..... four coats (max) of Cetol Light gives my teak a decent look. But it doesn't have a gloss just a nice satin look to it. Still can't make up my mind as to which one to use. I go back and forth. All my teak is bare awaiting the decision. This dilemma keeps me awake at night until I can't stand it any longer and must turn on Coast2Coast to fall asleep!

John Keefe 	ODYSSEA 	CT-37 No. 63 	   Youngstown, NY			           October 2004
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John,
    I fully appreciate your feeling about silicone. But the claim that TDS lasts for at least 20 years means that I will have to repeat it just after my 89th birthday. Maybe with a bit of luck, I won't have to do it until my 92nd birthday? The reason I like it is that it does not feel like silicon. I think it only contains a small amount of silicone combined with an Oxime rubber, and it is some type of silicone formulation that is not as troublesome. But who knows about this stuff. It's a bit like a do-hickey with a lifetime warranty. I have only used TDS so far on the teak deck seams. I pump it into the seams, flatten it down with a putty knife to eliminate air pockets, pull off the tape (must be done within 5-7 minutes of using the TDS), let it cure for a day or two, and then start sanding. It gives a nice non-glossy finish, matte like finish, to the caulking.

    Neat idea about that liquid electrical tape. The same material, but with a white color is also available. It can also be used as "Liquid Whipping" for rope ends. I put some of the white stuff on the end of some of my double braid Dacron lines about 5 years ago, and it is still holding the rope perfectly well, without evidence of fraying. But it doesn't feel very flexible, so I don't know how it would handle the normal flex of chainplates when they are working in the ocean.

    As for the Epifanes RapidCoat/RapidClear, I like the color better than Cetol. But the truth is that none of those compounds are anywhere near as elegant or glistening as a true varnish. However, they do last a long time, and are very easy to patch if you happen to ding it. Not true of the real varnishes. I also can put on 2-3 coats in a day, and it is nowhere near as finicky as varnish when it comes to humidity, air temperature, etc. I decided that it's a reasonable compromise. When I get my new Hinckley 52, I'll hire someone else to do the varnish work. But for the next 20 years, I may stick with Epifanes RapidClear.

regards, Harvey									          October 2004
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    In regard to your question about "DIY", it is a magazine called "DIY Boat Owner" which stands for do it yourself. You can find it at West Marine, etc. They have a web site: www.diy-boat.com or call 1 888 658-boat. Check it out it's very good. Sue Canfield published her article about teak deck care in the "Year 2002, issue #4" and in it she describes the procedure used on her T37 to maintain, sand, refasten and recaulk her boat. I pretty much followed her advice and it worked out great.  I ordered the back issue on-line and it came in a few days. It is well worth it. My teak deck came out looking awesome with nice tight seams and a joy to walk on with bare feet. They're good for another 25 years.

    Harvey had kindly posted to the ftp site some pictures I took of my project but I think that the folder was zapped from the site when the computer change-over occurred. I'll check again and if it is indeed missing I'll put together another folder of pics and I know Harvey will post them up there again for me. Thanks in advance, Harvey! I'll include a text file describing what I did, too, just give me a little time to get it all together. In the meantime and/or later on if you have any questions just ask away.

    Hope this helps and Happy Thanksgiving to all!

John Keefe	CT37 No.63 	ODYSSEA	Youngstown, NY			     November 2004
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    I will probably be rebuilding, regrooving and recaulking my deck this spring.  So far my choice of caulk is a single part rubber supplied by Teak Deck Systems ... used on commercial shipping applications.    http://www.teakdecking.com/products.htm
    I also plan to seal the teak with a (soon to be banned) fluorophosphates waterproofing solution --- just like they do on commercial vessels and megayachts. 

Rich Hampel										        January 2005
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    I used the BoatLife 2 Part seam sealant in quarts when I did my teak decks. I regrooved, rebunged, and treated each of the bung screw holes with 3 or 4 treatments of CPES, too. I also put in a bond breaker in every inch of the seams. Using the two part stuff was a lot of work because you only have 20 minutes or so to get it in the groove and it is a PITA to mix, pour into empty cartridges, etc. I thought about the Teak Deck System sealant (part silicone in makeup) but it seemed much to easy! I'm a traditionalist and like pain and suffering and doing things the old school way.....however, if I was to do it again, I'd try the TDS sealant already in the tube and ready to go. I hear it is good stuff but I don't know of anyone personally who has used it. FWIW. 

John Keefe	CT37 No.63	ODYSSEA	Youngstown, NY			           January 2005
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Hi John,
    I have used it to recaulk my cockpit benches and, so far - the two aft chain plates. There are some really nice qualities to this stuff. It has a low enough viscosity that it can easily be pushed into the groove as you draw the tip of your caulking gun towards you. If you have stuff left in the tube, put a piece of saran wrap over the tip, and the rest of the tube should last several weeks. When I want to use the remainder of the tube, I just pull out a bit of the extruded and cured material, and then start caulking again. That is definitely something that you can't do with the two-part caulking.

    The big critical operation when you use it, is to make sure that you fill the gap, then go over it immediately with a flexible plastic putty knife to leave a slight upwards bulge. Then IMMEDIATELY after that remove all the masking tape on each side of the seam. You have less than five minutes to get rid of the masking tape. Delaying that removal allows the TDS to form a skin that adheres to the edge of the masking tape. If you wait too long, and then remove the masking tape, it causes the TDS to lift up and makes a sunken hollow in the seam and the part that pulls up makes something that looks like a wave. The seam is still solidly water tight, but doesn't look well, and can't be sanded to final finish. Fixing it at that point is said to be easy, but I haven't gotten around to it yet. (I spoke to the people at TDS in Florida, and found them very helpful and encouraging). You can just rough up the surface with a 120 or 85 grit, wash with acetone, and put additional TDS on top. It will reportedly bond completely to the underlying material. When I tried this with other caulkings, they would eventually just peel off at the plane of juncture. If this works according to their description, that alone is reason enough to use their stuff.

    It comes in black and white. It's fairly pricey, at about $20 a tube at the local chandlery, about $13 a tube if you have a discount account.

    I have not had it in place long enough to make any long term judgments, but I spoke with a man at last year's Wooden Boat Festival in Port Townsend who had used it on his cockpit and decks a few years ago. It looks fabulous, and he said that it never showed signs of shrinkage or loss of bonding to the wood.

regards, Harvey									           January 2005
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Hi Harvey,
    Your comments on the TDS sealant are very interesting and if I had to do it all over again I would give it a try.

    Price wise, I paid around $34.00 for a quart of BoatLife 2 Part Sealant which works out to about $1.07 per ounce Vs TDS (10 oz. tube) at $14.00 which is about $1.40 per ounce or about 30% more to do the job. But, I had to buy empty cartridges to put the mix in, etc. so as far as I would be concerned it is a wash price wise. Labor wise TDS is a tremendous over 2 part polysulphide. It will be interesting to see how it holds up 5, 10, 20+ years from now.

    In any event my newly re-caulked decks should last another 20 + years with the 2 part polysulfide, I hope. One other big huge benefit of doing this project is that I really know what condition the decks are in (excellent) so now that project is officially completed.

    Harvey, how are you doing finding and fixing the leaks? On my list sent yesterday I forgot to mention some very fine or small cracks around the scuppers which allowed a little water to get into the bulwark cavity, too.  Easy repair.  Grind out and fill with thickened epoxy.

Regards, John Keefe	CT37 No.63	ODYSSEA   					            January 2005
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Hi John,
    Nice summary.  However, you may wish to change the wording on the paragraph describing teak decks. You state:
"Deck Composition
    I haven't seen numbers, but it appears that a majority of Tayana's were built with teak decks. Some owners love their teak decks and others curse the maintenance and water problems they bring. However, in recent years, boat repair yards are experimenting with composite teak woods and opting to seal all screw holes and glue the new teak to a sealed deck. This may provide the best of all advantages, but maybe costly. Fiberglass decks are not as prone to water damage, but only a few Tayana's were made with glass decks and may be difficult to find."

    NONE of the Tayana's were built with teak decks. The teak straking was added on top of a very heavily constructed fiberglass deck. The actual deck consists of a thick outer shell of fiberglass/resin. It is quite strong. The shell is then turned upside down, then many hundreds of small pieces of an Asian balsa-like material, placed in polyester resin.  The wood pieces are positioned as end grain, exactly as with balsa. However, the nature of the wood used was far less vulnerable to decay and rot than balsa. The space between the pieces of end-grain were "more or less" filled with additional resin. Another heavy lay-up of fiberglass and resin is then put down. If all the wood rotted out, the deck would still be strong enough for any condition you might encounter. The problem was with what happened next. After the deck is laid on the hull, the factory then put down teak straking in a bed of something like Thiokol. They then screwed the deck straking to the outer fiberglass shell. Bungs were then placed in the cap of the screw hole. The screws were never intended to be long enough to penetrate the core and inner shell. But a number of owners, apparently thinking that they were improving on the factory design, removed a lot of the screws, and inserted longer screws that penetrated through the inner shell as well.  This has the delightful consequence of providing a nice route for water to enter the cabin!

    But it is important to note that it is incorrect to state that the Tayana 37 has teak decks. Boats such as the Cape George 36, from Washington State, are gorgeous boats, but they are a problem. They do have plywood decks with teak on top. When they start to rot, it is a major disaster.

regards, Harvey									          February 2005
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Harvey,
    You had recommended a Fein Multimaster with the scraper blade to peel back the quilted vinyl hull liner. Well I finally ordered one and it arrived yesterday. There's almost nothing as cool as getting a new power tool in the mail...

    Anyway, of course I had to test it out today. It works great! I'm impressed! You can't rush the blade, but it does a nice job of getting the vinyl off. It leaves a lot of the dried adhesive, but that can be sanded down a bit before painting or applying new vinyl.

    I then tried the 31/8" Segmented HSS Blade that came with the kit I ordered, and it had no trouble going through a section of 1/4" FRP tabbing on one of the bulkheads I'm replacing. Again, you can't rush it, but it did the job with very little dust. I just did a small section so I don't know how well it will hold up. But this is definitely a job for the High Speed Steel blade, not the carbon. I also bought a 4mm caulk removal blade but haven't tried that yet.

    Coincidentally, I got the May/June issue of Good Old Boat in the mail yesterday, and while skimming through it this morning I noticed a picture of the Fein tool on page 33 being used to cut through "headliner".  Thanks again for the recommendation!

Chuck Snyder										 	April 2005

PS. BTW, I ordered from Coastal Tool http://www.coastaltool.com/  because their prices looked better than most others. Service and  shipping were good.
______________________________________________________________________________

    The variation in pricing on the Fein Multimaster is between about $195 (plus shipping and handling of about $15+) to about $215 (plus sales tax) at our local Tool Depot. Only buy the variable speed unit, not the cheaper single speed. They market the variable speed unit in two packages. The simple pack in a plastic case and a limited number of attachments ($195-215) or the "Professional Set" in a larger metal case with a bunch of additional blades. The Pro set is definitely more cost effective, but Tool Depot didn't have any in stock when I bought my unit. The various blades and accessories are outrageously expensive. The grouting segmented blade is about $50. A replacement E-saw cut is about $30. The one thing I have been unhappy with is the hook-and-loop sanding pad. If you are not very careful using it, you partially melt down the edges, and the loop sanding disk doesn't hold properly.

Harvey												April 2005
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Harvey, 
    While you're outfitting your Multimaster, pick up one of their teak knives. They come in 3, 4 and 5mm widths. It's the best tool I've found for removing caulk from the deck overlay in tight places. If you're recaulking the whole deck, a plunge router/laminate trimmer is the best tool to use in the open areas. 

Sue Canfield	Aeolus/T37 #-305	Annapolis, MD					April 2005
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    Its time to re-groove my teak deck.

    Offhand, it looks like the easiest method would be to use a small radial saw with a dado blade and simply 'eyeball' the grooves or make up a 'jig' to keep the saw in the present shallow groove. With teak being so abrasive to cutters I surmise that a 'jigged' plunge router will need a small fortune in bits/cutters. I need to go 1/8 deeper to get a full 1/4" deep groove. Any suggestions to make this horrendous job easier with power tools (and don’t burn them out in the process). 

    I plan on using "Teak-Decking Systems" single part silicone. I guess I’m the Guinea Pig on this new one part silicone. 

    I HATE gray decks.... anyone know of a good sealer and UV surface stabilizer? A lot of folks nearby my marina use Thompson’s Waterseal with mixed results. I’m not planning on sanding, just want something to hold the color of the soft grain (not the proud grain). 

    Would appreciate any other suggestions based on your experience. 

Rich Hampel											April 2005
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Rich, 
    I used just one 1/4" straight carbide bit in a Porter Cable laminate trimmer to do the entire deck (except the detailed work next to the trunk cabin) in one day. See photo at: 
ftp://ftp.sailnet.com/tayana/Decks_TeakTherapy_SueCanfield/05%20Router%20Guide.jpg 

Sue Canfield	Aeolus/T37 #-305	Annapolis, MD					April 2005
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Hi Rich,
    The TDS material is mainly an Oxime rubber combined with a relatively small amount of silicone. It has excellent adhesive properties, can be sanded, has a stretch coefficient (?) of somewhere between 20-40%.  Follow the directions carefully about using a spatula to force the material down into the gap. Remove the tape immediately after that! You MUST get the tape up within less than FIVE MINUTES of putting the TDS into the groove, or it will form a skin that pulls up the TDS. It makes it look like a hair wave from the 50's (if you remember that far back?!). Let it cure overnight before sanding or cutting off excess. The stuff is excellent. If you run into a problem with it, just cut out a piece, wash the fresh surface with acetone, and put in some new TDS caulking.

    The company also now has had a lot more experience using it as caulking for deck hardware, and recommends its use for that as well.  The only down side is price.

    I saw it on several boats at the Port Townsend Wooden Boat Show a few years ago, and started using it when I re-did my cockpit caulking. Great stuff.

Harvey												April 2005
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     I did it just as Sue described in her article in DIY magazine (2002 Issue #4) and in her posting to the ftp site. I used up 2 or 3 carbide 1/4" bits in a small laminate trimmer which ran along a wood batten about 6 feet long by ~1.5" wide with 3/4" long slots every 2 inches or so (to enable it to bend or curve) which was tacked into adjacent grooves with thin brads. Worked out great but time consuming as I was working by myself. Caution: wear ear protection! Also, lots of debris is thrown about so a good vac is helpful. I had pictures posted to the ftp site at one point but I don't see them now. They must have been deleted in the computer change over by Sailnet. Two other helpful things were good knee pads and a 12v caulking gun which worked out great. Terrific tool if a lot of caulking is required. In addition, my grooves are ~1/4" deep and I used the Boat Life 2 part polysulfide caulking just because I know it will last for another 20 years. The TDS stuff is used in the roofing industry a lot today and a tube is about 1/2 the price from local building contractor suppliers just under a different name. Good reviews of the stuff in the roofing business, too. For a good article on sealants and caulking check out: 

http://www.roofingcontractor.com/CDA/ArticleInformation/features/BNP__Features__Item/0,3241,142606,00.html 

    Presently, my teak deck is bare but I want to put a coating on it, too. However, I'm concerned about using something that might soften up the seam sealant. I've heard that Cetol may/has/might cause softening of the sealant although I have used it over 3M (disc.), 1 part BoatLife in the tube, etc., with no problem except that the Cetol applied over the sealant takes longer to dry. 
Good luck. It's well worth the effort. 

Regards, John Kalpus										April 2005
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    Rich raised a number of important points of concern, particularly the matter of the limited adhesion life of epoxy with teak. I went to the West System website, (http://www.westsystem.com/), and couldn't find any comments on testing of life expectancy of epoxy bonding to teak.

    However, they did have an interesting article under their section of Marine Projects, entitled "Installing a teak deck on Zatara". A PDF version is available at: 
http://www.westsystem.com/ewmag/20/pdf/Ew20_Teak_deck.pdf
The author describes how they re-installed a teak deck on an older boat.  The original teak decks had been removed by the previous owner. The project is described in detail, including how to secure each plank in place as the epoxy cures. All screw holes were filled. Sounds like a truly "fun project" if you feel that you want to do some time in Hell.  But the results are impressive. The author started with a non-skid deck, and had to steam bend his planks, wedge them in place, etc.

regards, Harvey										May 2005
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    I’m simply amazed how many times I’ve seen teak that has been properly epoxied to 'something' always seems to eventually 'go'. Just about any time I examine the 'failure', its never the epoxy and usually there is a very 'thin' bit of apparently oxidized teak film hanging onto the epoxy. I know this as I destroyed yet another dorade when I hooked the mainsheet around a cowl this weekend. Any joint that could come apart did ... and I can plainly see the ad nauseum ever-present thin layer of teak hanging onto the epoxy joint. 

    Anyone who ever saved the teak sections of their bowsprit will testify to the 'oxidation' at the teak surface. 

Rich Hampel											May 2005
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    What is the typical thickness of the teak decking? I have the impression that it is slightly thicker than 3/8" and up to about 1/2", based on various holes I have drilled. In a few places where I can estimate how much had been sanded down in the past, I figure that previous owner had not taken off much more than 1/16". If so, then the residual thickness should be good for another 20-30 years.

     When I recently cut out a 3" hole for a hawse pipe, I found that the teak was relatively well adherent to the underlying deck, but could be easily pried up without damaging the wood. The bonding material was a black sealant, probably Thiokol. I could easily scrape it off.

    It made me wonder about the possibility of redoing the teak decking with the same original planks, assuming I can remove it all without splintering the planking, numbering them all carefully, sealing all the deck holes, and starting again. But I would then do it in the way that Swan and others now do it. They lay down the planks in a bed of epoxy, screw it down until the epoxy cures, and then remove the screws. They fill the small holes with additional epoxy and a bung (if I understand the process correctly). This has two major advantages: 

1) No screw holes in the deck and therefore no water intrusion.
2) The lack of the stainless screws means that there is none of the black staining due to ferritic corrosion in an anoxic environment (Rich, please correct the error in this description).

    If you want to go still further with improving the original system, rather than putting in screws to hold the planking, perhaps a load of lead bricks to maintain pressure until the epoxy sets. If all the original bung holes were now drilled all the way through the thickness of the teak planks, you could put in a full thickness bung. This would also cure the problem of the bungs being so thin that they easily pop out with time and foot traffic.

    Perhaps Sue Canfield might be able to give us some guidance on this.  I find that the teak decking is rather attractive. The silver gray doesn't bother me at all, but it is clearly a matter of personal taste.  I also installed a saltwater washdown pump with the intention of frequent washing of the decks with clean salt water. In San Diego we have the additional problem that Shelter Island is directly across from the Coronado Island Naval Air Station, and under the flight path from our local major airport. We get a lot of oily smoky residue that seeps into the wood. Washing the decks with fresh water produces a flow of black soot, but some of it clearly soaks into the wood itself. I wonder about a finish that might serve to seal the wood and shed that crud.

regards, Harvey										May 2005
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Harvey: 
    When we removed our teak decks to do our recore job, I had also planned to carefully mark the teak planks and reinstall them with epoxy on the new deck. Then reality met theory. Our reality was that about a third of the teak planks adhered to the old deck so tenaciously that it was virtually impossible to remove them without breakage. Moreover, those planks that did come up in one piece were coated with either (1) a thick layer of gooey uncured Thiokol or (2) a thick layer of hardened cured Thiokol. After seeing this course of events, I quickly realized that my original plan was going to be a real nightmare; I quickly warmed up to the idea of fiberglass decks and have never looked back. For a nonskid finish, we used Dynel for the last layer of lay-up. It works pretty well, but not nearly as well as teak. Hope this helps your decision process. Good luck!!! 

Dayton Eckerson 	T-37	 MISTRESS (#215) 						May 2005
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    Another way to go…
    A power boater in Ventura working on an old but very nice 50-footer glassed over his teak decks. He sanded the deck flat made sure the screws were secure and installed the glass, painted the deck then painted the nonskid sections, it still looks factory new and no leaks after 4 years... I can get all the information on how to if anybody is interested and a picture or two.

Bill McMullen											May 2005
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    Much as it pains me to entertain the notion, I begin to wonder about the prospect of removing vs. repairing my teak decks. I really love them, and they seem in fair condition - but the question I ask myself is what are the determinants of such a decision.

    From my point of view, I think that teak decks are lovely and provide excellent footing. The problem is that the previous owner really scrubbed them mercilessly, and about half the bungs are missing. I also can't decide which of the many exposed screws (about 120 exposed heads) might be factory originals, and which the previous owner (PO) put in.  Some of them are obviously those of the PO, as they actually stick down into the cabin overhead in a many places. (Duh!)  Many of the others are simple slotted screws with flat heads. This is a bit puzzling to me, as when I had to remove a plug of decking for my aft radar tower, it was a part of the deck that had not been as badly scraped, and the screw was a small slotted screw but with an oval head.  Our boat is a 1977 (hull #84) and I wonder if anyone else with this vintage boat knows which type of screw was used on the decking?

    A critical issue, obviously, is the question as to how much teak is left. I estimate that in most places, it is only between 1/4" to 3/8" If I try to restore the original appearance, I obviously need to rout and counterbore for new bungs. The decking itself is mostly secured to the underlying deck, except for two spots where the screws came loose. But I seriously doubt that the original polysulfide sealant is still very well bonded to the substrate. One question is just how thick a board has to be to accommodate a new flat head and sufficient bung to be able to hold the board securely, and still permit sanding off the bung enough to provide a useful cover for the screw?

    I also wonder about being able to make clean cut countersink holes in old abused teak. My concern is that even a really good countersink may grab the fibers of tired wood and cause problems.

    I obviously don't relish the notion of removing and replacing some estimated 1,200 screws, filling each of the holes with laminating epoxy, redrilling and counterboring, etc. But the idea of removing the teak decks also does not appeal to me.

regards, Harvey										July 2005
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Harvey, 
    With 120 exposed screw heads, I'd be surprised if water isn't getting into the deck core and/or your boat's interior. You should at a minimum remove the exposed fasteners, inject epoxy, counterbore, rebung, etc. What about the caulking in the seams? Are there cracks visible between the caulking and the sides of the seams? If you send me some digital photos of the overlay, I can offer more informed advice. 

    If significant portions of the deck core are wet and there are various leaks to the interior that have left water stains on the inside of the hull, lifted the finish on and/or discolored the joinery belowdecks, it would be best to remove the teak overlay as well as the upper layer of the deck laminate, and excise the deteriorated deck material. After laying in new core and relaminating, you can choose to apply a non-skid paint coating, external non-skid material (e.g., Treadmaster), or a new teak overlay (e.g., Teak Decking Systems). 

    Removing the teak overlay and recoring the deck molding is an expensive job, but recoring a T-37 from the inside would be even more costly. How long you expect to own your boat and how do you plan to use it? 

Sue Canfield	Aeolus	    T37 #-305	   Annapolis, MD					July 2005
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Harvey:
    I feel your pain. Our Hull is #118. We have a bit more wood than you describe but some of the bungs are out also. The screw heads on our boat have Philips head screws and are stainless. The caulk on our deck is in pretty good shape and thankfully our cockpit is covered with a full enclosure so the deck there looks very good. I have put bungs in that were only 3/16" deep with Resorcinol glue and they are still there after 10 years. I used brad point drills and used a cheap drill press that I could stand on so there was no movement when I drilled the hole. Doing it this way I could also set the depth of the hole. Use new drills with every 20 or so holes and the edges will stay crisp and clean. Good luck

Nick DeRocher	S/V Paul Martin	T 37 Hull#118					July 2005
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Hi Harvey,
    Ouch! Rebunging teak decks. Been there, done that! It took me four years to do it working just in the cooler months. And hundreds of hours.  Backpain will be your primary scheduling concern. And that was only rebunging. Didn't need any deck repairs.

    Sue has identified the real problem. How are the deck seams? My seams were in good shape, adhering nicely to the teak on either side. And the boards never got the slightest bit loose when all the screws were removed. But the job was doubled by air bubbles in the caulking. It took almost as long as the sanding/drilling/rebunging to cut out the hollow sections and tape/recaulk. I must have had 700 individual caulking repairs.  Your boat may or may not have this problem. I only ended up doing a complete recaulking of about 5 linear feet of deck seams. Otherwise, all the repairs were 1 to 2 inches in length. I learned early on that if the original deck caulking is adhering well, leave it alone!

    I have been working on a Word document about the project. It concentrates primarily on the tools needed. That was the hardest part. I floundered for over a year before I figured out what and where to order. I first tried drilling holes for bungs with the stuff from my local hardware store. Disaster! Finally learned about Jamestown Distributors and their line of professional taper point drill bits, cutters and countersinks, and stop collars. Even the right bungs are important. If the bungs don't have a chamfered end, you can't start them in the new hole without doing damage (hint - DO NOT buy the bungs from West Marine (Sea Dog?)). Even the right sandpaper can make a tremendous difference in time (either use 3M Gold or double the time estimate for the job!). The exact screws needed are detailed as well as recommended brands of deck seam caulking, the proper masking tape - everything.  Even product order codes are listed...

(Update 2005:  see http://tognews.com/ftpfiles/ and look for the article on refinishing teak decks)

Wayne 	V-42	 C/C	 RESTLESS							July 2005
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     The good news is that I am ignorant of the true state of the core.  When ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise). However, when I recently cut out a piece of deck for the new anchor hawse pipe, the core was bone dry. When I cut a piece out for the washdown pump several feet away), it was slightly discolored, but also dry. Perhaps this reflects the part of the world in which we live. I also wonder if the previous owner might have done some terribly sensible thing, such as injecting a squirt of epoxy in every hole before he put in a new screw. In those cases where he used a screw that was so long that it actually penetrated the inner shell of the fiberglass deck sandwich, there is no evident water damage, except in the instance of two or three spots, and that is uncertain.

    The caulking between the strakings was shot, hence I removed all the old caulking and about to re-caulk with Teak Decking Systems Oxime rubber-silicone mix. I used this on the cockpit teak, and am delighted with the results.

    At this point, I suspect that the projects on this boat will kill me, so I assume that I am likely to own this boat for the rest of my life.

regards, Harvey										  July 2005
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Harvey, 
    Since you're already recaulking the overlay, it just makes sense to refasten it as well. The latter is far less of a chore than the former. With the right tools, two people should be able to knock out the job in two or three days. Try a test section first to see what sort of problems, if any, you're likely to encounter. 

Sue Canfield											  July 2005

(See Sue’s detailed article on teak deck refinishing at http://tognews.com/ftpfiles/Decks_TeakTherapy_SueCanfield/ )
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     I put down the TDS caulking material in the cockpit several months ago, and have been very pleased with the results. There are a couple of critical steps that you can't circumvent.

1) You must clean out the old caulking, then wash the seams with acetone.
2) Tape each side of the seam carefully.
3) Squeeze in an excess of material, then within a minute or two, force it in with a small wooden spatula, leaving a slight hump.
4) IMMEDIATELY after you smooth it with the spatula, remove that piece of tape. We initially waited too long, and the TDS immediately starts to form a skin. At that point, when you lift the tape, it also pulls up the surface skin of caulking, causing a slight hollow in the seam and a curlicue wave above it. Once we learned the trick of removing the tape immediately, it went well (OK, so it wasn't a "trick" - had I read the instructions carefully, I would have realized that they tell you to do it that way.). I also found that if I let it almost completely cure overnight, and removed the tape very carefully the next day, it worked out OK. But it took a lot longer and the tape often tore at the seam, requiring teasing it out with a tweezers.
5) Curing typically starts within several minutes and you can walk on it the next day. I waited several days before starting to sand the caulking. It did not shrink or sink into the seams, but actually protruded slightly.

    I had planned to put in a breaker strip in the bottom, but the seams were so uneven in width, that I finally gave up on trying to put in a breaker strip. I asked the people at TDS about this and they sort of hedged their response. I was left with the impression that while it might be helpful, it wasn't all that essential. The reason seems to be that TDS has really high adhesion, combined with a sustained 20-40% elasticity over a 20 year period (estimated). Most other caulking compounds lose their elasticity rapidly and that results in breaking the bond to the side walls of the seam.

    I subsequently sanded down the caulking and the surrounding teak straking (very gently) and the results are quite nice. It still is 28-year-old teak straking, but the final result is much better than before.

    After you open a tube of TDS, you can cover the tip with Saran wrap, and it will still be good for weeks (to months?). It initially has a low viscosity, so it flows into the seams very easily.  The only drawback to TDS is that it can be pretty expensive, varying from $12-$20 per tube, depending upon where you buy it, and it is a mess when it gets on your hands and hair.

    I saw a few boats at the Port Townsend Wooden Boat Show that had used it on their decks, and was really impressed at how well it looked.  But smoothing it with a spatula and forcing it down into the groove, followed by immediately removing the tape, is absolutely critical.

    As for the tenacity of the stuff, I had occasion to test it in an unusual way. The hatch cover over the propane locker is teak straking on plywood. The plywood is held in place with screws from below. Over the years, the plywood had gotten damp and rotted out. It may not have actually been marine plywood. I removed the screws from below, and pulled all the plywood from below. The teak straking kept all the pieces in exact relationship while I replaced the rotted plywood exterior A-CX plywood that I first saturated with West Epoxy. When I finished the job, the seams of TDS were all still intact.

    Adding additional caulking is supposed to be easy. Rough the surface with a bit of 80-grit sandpaper, rinse with acetone, and put in the caulking. They say that the two streams will tightly bond immediately.  This also makes repairs easier.

regards, Harvey										    July 2005
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Hi Harvey,
    Every Tayana older than 12 to 15 years old has water under the decks somewhere. Or in the cabin sides. Run a moisture meter over the cabin sides and you will see what I mean. Somewhere, it will be saturated. Luckily, we have overbuilt boats to start with so it is simply a matter of vacuuming out the excess water and then stopping the ingress of future water. Sometimes, I think surveyors tend to create undo concern about water under the decks and this often leads to dramatic reductions in price. Water is going to be found somewhere on older boats.  A good surveyor can determine whether it is a serious problem requiring immediate attention or it is a minor problem requiring little more than monitoring.  Most of the time, the new owner doesn't even bother to make the expensive fix. If an area is not soft to touch or walk on and it is not weeping into the cabin, then it is not a serious problem and is just a natural condition of boat "aging". As I told one boater when he opined about this condition, "If water under the deck concerns you, triple the money you have set aside to buy a boat and buy a new one! Just don't keep it over ten years..."

Wayne Strausbaugh									   	   July 2005
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Hi Harvey,
    Yes, two countersinks for drilling bung holes should do it. It's hard to beat quality tools! Keep them clean when they load up with teak residue. Use two countersinks on a single drill bit. Even when tightening the two Allen screws on one countersink, it may still slip up the drill bit shaft. With your spare on the bit, no more slipping (and going through the inside cabin ceiling) plus its easy to locate your spare...

   I actually tried a few #10 screws and 7/16ths inch bungs prior to settling on the #8 screws and 3/8ths inch bungs originally installed at the factory.  Individually, they looked terrible. You can actually use a 3/8th-inch hole with a number 10 screw.  It is a tight fit but it will clear. If you have some 7/16ths inch bung holes, it is best to use just the 7/16ths inch bungs. Put a whole row in together and it won't look bad.

    Hint: to make bungs "disappear", sand them down with a sanding block.  Just a swish, swish (1/2 second) per bung. When you stand back, a few feet, they will be "gone".

Wayne Strausbaugh										    July 2005
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Harvey,
    Good luck with you deck project. I'm glad I did mine. I used the router routine and made all the seams 1/4" wide and deep. I used the Boat Life 2 part seam sealant and it took about 14 or 15 quarts to do the job. It was no problem putting in 1/4" bond breaker. I definitely recommend the bond breaker if using the 2 part stuff. I'm happy with the results although it's not perfection... it is definitely good enough. Nice tight seams. The 2 part stuff does shrink a little as it cures over time and some of my level seams are now slightly depressed. If I had to do it all over again I believe I would use the silicone caulk like TDS as it is far easier to use and there is no mixing and filling of caulking tubes, etc. I have heard nothing but good things about that type of seam sealant.

    I replaced all the screws and bungs and treated the holes with CPES (3 times). I used a counterbore with a stop collar to make the screw holes slightly deeper. When installing the new screws I put a drop of epoxy into the hole then screwed in the new ss slotted 3/4" flat head sheet metal screw. Immediately I coated a teak bung and tapped it home with a small hammer. I used the Smith's Lay-up and Laminating epoxy as it has a long pot life and the stuff bonds  exceptionally well to teak. One thing I ran into was that there were some spots that had 2 bungs (and sometimes 3) right next to each other with just one screw under one of them. In those cases I used a 3/4" Forstner bit to make a flat bottom hole for a 3/4" teak bung because in trying to remove both original bungs I messed up the holes. When the deck was finished it all tended to blend together. I did the whole job by myself under a shrink wrap cover designed so I could work under it. It is a big job for one person but I just took my time and eventually it was done. The pictures on the ftp site show some of the project.

    Since the decks were maintained by the three, past owners, I had no problem with a wet core, etc. All the screws came out dry and the seams were dry as well after I routed out the original sealant. In fact, the teak was never sanded much in the past so I had nearly all the original thickness of the wood. After the bungs were in and the epoxy cured I trimmed them with a chisel and hammer and lightly sanded them smooth with a dual action sander.  I then taped and filled the seams with the 2-part seam sealant. Once cured I smoothed out the seams using the dual action sander (very lightly and at low rpm's) to finish it all off. Now I have only minimal maintenance and wow do they look good! Teak decks just give my CT-37 that real nautical flavor I find so appealing. It was well worth the time and effort.

    Finally, all the original screws were SS flat head, slotted, 1" long wood screws (1977 CT-37, hull 63) so I used 3/4 long screws since I deepened the holes a bit.

John Keefe											July 2005
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    Wow! That Fein Multimaster is one great tool. I cleaned out the rest of the seams, exposed fresh wood along the sidewalls, and deepened and widened the seams very easily. It was almost fun. (Yeah, sure!) Tomorrow morning I will wash with acetone and tape. If time allows I may even be able to start caulking.

    I measured the thickness of the straking in a number of places, by excavating in the seam down to the underlying deck. The thickness of the straking varied from about 0.375" (3/8") to 0.533" (slightly > 1/2" or 13 mm), with typical values of about 0.41"(approximately 7/16"). If I use #8 x 3/4" flat heads, will I have enough teak straking to hold the wood securely in place and still be able stuff in a bung?

    I DO NOT intend to lift off the straking in order to put down fresh adhesive. I am taking Rich's advice and just doing my best to seal all the boards to prevent water from reaching the underlying fiberglass deck.

    OK, Great Gurus. Am I on a suicide course with my teak decks, or can I manage to get this to look reasonably decent?

regards, Harvey										    July 2005
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    I have almost completed the whole (caulking) job (except for a few spots that need attention), and would modify my description.

    Almost all the caulking had pulled away on one side or the other of the seams. I initially removed the old caulking by using a utility knife to separate the remaining adherent caulking from the seam. I then pulled out the old caulking with sharpened bent screwdriver sized to fit into the grooves. If I had owned the Fein at the time I did the initial work, it would have gone much faster and easier.

    The things that I would now add would be that I found that it is very helpful to use a Fein Multimaster to clear out the old caulking. Then, using the flat grouting blade (medium grit) on the Fein, I would sand down the side walls of the seam, and using the same tool, deepen the groove where it seems needed. This gets rid of any last bits of the old caulking, and exposes fresh wood. It goes very quickly with the Fein. I had previously been doing this with a bent sharpened screwdriver and found it a slow and laborious process, and missed a lot of spots with old caulking. Although only time will show if this is valid, I think that the Fein grouting blade may have been the most important tool I used in this whole clean n' ream operation.
I would then wash liberally with acetone.
Tape the seams.
I then used a squeeze bottle filled with Smith's CPES (clear penetrating epoxy solution), liberally poured it into the seams and flooded the sidewalls of the seam. This only takes about half an hour to do all the seams on the boat using the squeeze bottle with a long "straw"-like spout with a narrow tip. On a T-37 it only required a total of about 1.5 pints of CPES for all the decking.
Now caulk with the TDS, forcing material into the seam and expelling any air bubbles.
Force the material into the seam with a wooden "spatula" (I used those wooden paint stirrers that they give away freely at paint stores and Home Depot). Cut out a small groove in the tip of the wooden spatula to allow the caulking to form a slight hump.
Immediately remove the tape before the caulking forms a skin. That means you have to get the tape off in less than 2-4 minutes after you push in the caulking.
Let it cure overnight.
Spray with water (which helps it cure, but I would wait a few hours to permit initial curing.)
Wait a few days and then trim the excess using a single edged razor blade.
The TDS can then be lightly sanded and left a bit 'proud' to provide better footing on the deck.
I have not sanded the deck, other than in a few very rough spots, and plan to replace the bungs and limit my sanding to that immediate area.

    When the TDS cured, I then used a spray bottle of either Lysol Mildew remover or Zep Mildew Remover, on all the teak decking. Leave it on for only 2-3 minutes, and flush off with copious amounts of water. This really cleans off the mildew and spores, and leaves the deck relatively pale. Makes the new caulking look even better!

regards, Harvey									  	August 2005
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    Fein makes two versions of that tool (Fein Multimaster) - one with a fixed speed and the second with a variable speed. I would only go for the variable speed. It's far more adaptable.

    They make several different widths of caulking remover. I think they are 3, 4 and 6 mm in width. I don't have that blade, as I had already done all the work on the major removal with a utility knife and a bent screwdriver. The grouting blade I referred to is a standard component of the Fein Multimaster kit. I only started to use by chance because that happened to be on the tool. I was amazed to find that it was the ideal tool for cleaning out the seams, and because it also has abrasive on the edge, it worked extremely well in deepening the seam. Professionals working on caulking seams use a circular saw for deepening and cleaning out the caulking seams. If that ever gets away from you, it can really damage your decking, cutting novel seams, hard to follow gentle curves, etc. The Fein grouting blade has none of those problems. It's very easy to control the direction and depth. Unlike a circular saw, it doesn't 
"walk away" from you and stays in the groove.

    The tool, with a few simple blades and sturdy plastic case, costs about $200. I put off buying it for years because of the price, until I had a chance to actually try it once. I immediately rushed out to buy it!

regards, Harvey										August 2005
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