Holding Tanks
  from the 
                Tayana List 

Subject: Holding tank location

  I bought a T-37 a while ago and have spent a ton of time in the engine room looking for the holding tank. Can't find it!  I did find the macerator, one end of which is not attached to anything but has a fitting that looks like something locks into it.  I've followed the line from the head to aft of the engine, where it disappears under the flooring.

  Where is the holding tank usually put on a T37? Why isn't the macerator attached to a through-hull (I thought that the point was that you could pump the head overboard if far enough out at sea)?

  Any help would be appreciated (I'm not using the head until I've got this figured out - I'm reduced to making the long walk to the marina head).

 Thanks, Dean									       July 2001
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Subject: Holding tank location

    Is it common for T-37's to use the bilge mounted 100 gallon SS tank as a diesel tank?

    We have two tanks located aft (one in each quarter), their combined capacity is approximately 80 gallons. Given I have this extra water capacity, I am tempted to remove the bow fuel tank and convert the existing bilge 100 gallon water tank to a diesel tank.  Any thoughts?

Bill Moloney 									   August 2001
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   Our holding tank is under the port settee against the bulkhead between the main salon and the head. It's a 26 gal SS tank.

Chuck Harris									   August 2001
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   The holding tank on our Tayana 37 (Hull #84) is in a sealed chamber at the aft end of the bilge, and immediately under the engine. The spot that you found the hose "... where it disappears under the flooring"  is the entrance to the glassed in holding tank. If you stare at the area under the oil pan, you should see a series of 1.5 inch hoses attached via two connectors, and a thinner vent line. On of the large hoses should be traced back to the head. The other hose may have a Tee fitting. One side goes to the deck fitting for the pumpout. (Ours is on the port side deck, well aft).  The other end of the tee fitting goes to a manual bilge pump for pumping out the holding tank.

   Depending upon the age of your boat, I suggest that you replace all the hoses, as they often become clogged up with calcium salts, which then causes it to be further plugged up with fecal wastes. Make sure you buy only the type of hose that is intended for use with toilet lines. It has to be smooth on the interior to avoid trapping things, and it has to be made of a material that doesn't allow odors to leak through the wall of the tubing.

   This is all a stinky and rotten job, but in the long run, will shorten your need to walk to community toilet at the top of the docks in the middle of the night.

   While you are at it, you should also learn to rebuild the toilet itself, and triple check all your through-hulls for intake of sea water and dumping of effluent.

regards, Harvey Karten							   August 2001
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Bill,
  The "small holding tank just aft of the mast..."may have been the one intended as a sump tank for the shower. The reason the plumbing may "look dubious" is that it is designed to carry minimal amounts of liquids related to showering and no solid waste. Is it a unit with a 3/4 to 1 inch inlets and outlets? Does the top have a series of nuts holding it down?

Perhaps some previous owner tried "correct" a situation before they read the manual.  I would take a flashlight and see if you can find a series of 1.5 inch pipes just below the engine. Are there any large hoses going there that can be traced forward to the head? Does one connect to a deck fitting and another to a vent line?

 Check the T-37 manual that is available from the Bulletin Board.  This is a manual prepared by Ed Potter for owners' of T-37 boats. 

Regards, Harvey								   August 2001
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  The tank can be repaired with MarineTex.  Get some plastic corner protectors from a wallpaper store and cut to the desired length. Mix the MarineTex and butter the plastic angle. Press the buttered angle in the corners inside the tank and cure. It would help if he can pressurize the tank to a few pounds while it is curing.  I have used this method and it works well.

Tom Cagney							  	          November 2001
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   The vent line diameter on the T37 is indeed incredibly small. Holding tank gases are indeed serious.... and the small vent line is probably the most significant reason for this production of 'toxics'. 

   Most modern 'potty specialists' recommend a fully open 1-1/2" diameter vent to promote aerobic (air) fermentation of the contents which lead to LESS STINK. You can now also purchase aerators (similar to fish tank aerators) that will sparge the required air into the 'mix'. I was in Fawcetts (famous boat Chandlery in Annapolis) a month ago and saw such a powered aerator especially built for boats. Working in and out of the fermentation industry for the past few decades, coupled with seeing the powered aerator, kind of hit me like a ton of bricks.... Duh, why didn’t I think of this!  With such a small vent, the fermentation process becomes anaerobic: produces CO2, H2S, and other noxious stuff... the carbon dioxide blanketing the tank contents which makes it anaerobic. I use a product called "Odorlos" which is a bacteria nutrient plus enzymes to digest the 'stuff' including paper; but the real reason is to promote an aerobic fermentation so that the stink does not permeate the tank and the rubber hoses. On my list of 'future priorities' (future no. 1376) is to hard-pipe the entire sewage system with PVC.... and have the proper 'pitch' so the 'stuff' doesn’t stay in the hoses, etc. and will actually drain to the tank; as the long run of horizontal rubber tube cannot possibly empty drain to the holding tank without a LOT of flushing.

Rich Hampel									October 2002
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   Sparging takes place at the bottom of the tank.... to add air and to keep the 'stuff' moving and to pump out/displace the CO2.  In that mode, there would be an absolute MINIMUM of odor.  The demo unit I saw seemed to be extremely small ... about 1/4 cfm (or less but it approximated what you normally see bubbling up in a small to moderate fish tank), and could probably be powered by a solar panel. Such a system REALLY makes sense.

   In my old Pearson, I used a flexible Rubber tank as a holding tank, and every time the boat would pound in waves, the bladder would pump the most obnoxious odor (mercaptans and other putrenes ?). My remedy was to add "Odorlos' & leave the deck plate open/off - no more stink!

Rich Hampel									October 2002
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    A couple comments.  I looked at your drawings. Nice. I might suggest forgetting about the gray water tank.  Drain it overboard.  Then I would put the waste tank aft and keep it away from where I sleep. I assume you sleep in the V-berth.  Also be careful where you put the hot water tank.  It must be below the engine reservoir tank.  You might consider adding a second reservoir/fill tank to get it up higher in the boat.  I think Harvey did that. Check the archives.

    Also check with these guys before you decide on a tank.  Maybe you have another choice.  Keep us posted.  My tanks are getting old too. http://www.atlinc.com/index.html

Ray Slaninka									  January 2003
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    A number of years ago, I used a company in Tustin California for a holding tank.  I just checked their site and they are claiming over 400 tank sizes and shapes available.  Another plus is that they can install the inlet and the outlet anywhere on the tank to make the tank work from any direction. I found them at Yahoo at Ronco Plastics. You might give them a look

Ted Tomasek		Kailani  	V-42					      June 2003
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    I recently pulled all of the hoses on China Doll and replaced them. A major task in and of itself. Several things made the job a little less difficult: #1, a good helper, #2 a heat gun to make the new hoses more pliable, #3 KY Jelly, #4 a good fish tape to help guide the hoses to unseeable passes thru bulkheads, etc. The whole job took about 5 days at 12 -14 hours a day but that also included the time to go to the hose store for the new pieces.

    Be careful not to use the heat gun on the KY Jelly as it could pose a fire hazard. Mostly take your time, think it thru and know that it is doable.

Joseph Herlocker							         November 2003
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    I replaced my head hoses, all of them. Oh yes, I had the bilge tank out and decided to take advantage of the access, which was the only reason I changed them. In addition to the hoses snaking through the areas you described, they pass through "gussets" which support the floor off of the hull. One of the hoses also had a support clamp screwed to the floor from underneath which would have been an impossible task if the tank were not removed. A lot of pulling and elbow grease. It was not an easy task, but it is possible. The tank being out also allows access to the holding tank under the engine.

Joe Sprouse		Sojourn					         November 2003
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    I am sure that one of you has experienced the task of replacing the hose from the diverter valve to the waste holding tank. On my boat, the hose enters the head compartment from the bilge passing through the main bulkhead from under the dinette forward seat, makes an immediate 90-degree turn to port and another immediate 90-degree turn up through the sole under the sink locker in the head straight into the diverter valve assy. Where the hose passes through the sole under the sink, they were nice enough to include the wiring harness and then glassed over the whole mess. I have managed to chisel out the glass so this hose is loose but am unable to get the hose to move through the hole in the sole and bulkhead as the turns are too great as it caused the hose to bind against the sole and the bulkhead as well as the hull that it is preloaded against. The access is incredibly poor so as to allow finger tip access only when squeezed in through the floor board access in front of the head door and also accessed from a cutout under the dinette forward seat. Has anyone performed this task? Any ideas are greatly appreciated.

BJ Benson	T-37 	Nelle Bly	Hull #518			          November 2003
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    Also helpful if you attach a messenger line to the hose as you remove it.  It makes it much easier to snake the new hose back in place. 

Harvey						    			          November 2003
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    The way I have always managed to get "stuck" hoses free for removal is to put a big Stillson wrench on the joint and give it about a 1/4 of a turn until all the adhesive stuff (both intentional and residue from the hose contents over the years) breaks free.  Once the seal has been broken it is usually pretty easy to pull the hose off and on the hose barb. This works with black hose but I’m not so sure I would try it with white sanitation hose which is more flexible and probably easier to damage with the wrench. 
 
    If the hose is really loaded with scale (as frequently results from urine of people on hormone replacement therapy), I have found that the thick squirt-on toilet cleaner they sell at west marine works very well.  It dissolves the scale quickly.  Installing the white sanitation hose requires some sort of heat (gun or boiling water) to soften the hose so it can be forced on the barb. 

John Lewis								         November 2003
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  A few drops of liquid soap detergent works very well. A heat gun is helpful, but can burn the hose, and is difficult to use in small spaces.

Harvey 								         November 2003
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    KY jelly is water soluble and non-flammable.  Otherwise, my doctor would certainly not use it on my butt.  Petroleum products should be kept away from all hoses except fuel hoses.  Greasing hoses only makes them hard to grip when installing. 

Joe Sprouse							                   November 2003
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    A few drops of liquid soap detergent works very well.  A heat gun is helpful, but can burn the hose, and is difficult to use in small spaces. Hey Sailors... When I was replacing a few 1 1/2 inch waste lines on Prudence, of course I found it almost impossible to "slip" the new hose on the new (or old) hose barbs. Jeeeze, that's hard! Then, I remembered that when mufflers shops need to join two sections of steel tubing then often enlarge one end with a hydraulic tool. One quick trip to my local Harbor Freight (read cheap tool store) and I found just such a manual tool. One end of the new hose goes into the device. I crank a few turns on the screw mechanism which enlarges the hose, then I quickly insert the new hose on the barb. Give it a few minutes to shrink back down and then apply your hose clamps. It's a cinch!

The tool is called a Tail Pipe Expander and can be seen online at:
http://www.harborfreight.com/,  type Tailpipe expander into search block.

37353-0VGA      MEDIUM TAIL PIPE EXPANDER 	$14.99 

John Kalpus	Prudence	Tayana 37	San Diego		        November 2003
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    We just replaced the holding tank and head hoses. All the hoses were the original, 22 years old. Jim cut the old ones off with a knife and the appropriate language also using a large screw driver with a hammer.  It wasn't pretty but it worked very well. When replacing the hoses we used my hair dryer, not as fussy as a heat gun, and dish soap.  Everything was double clamped.  It took a weekend and just in time for the rains. We just had the pump out boat come by and everything looked and smelled good.

Jane Helden-Baker	Parcae	 V-42					         November 2003
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    I did use the shields black odor free hose. There was no issue of sliding over the hose barbs with no lubricant involved.  Bends very nice to go around corners etc.  I used that white hose on a previous boat and it permeated in about a year. Check out Practical Sailor and their ratings. It is a nasty and difficult job. Use the best stuff you can get.

Joe Sprouse								          November 2003
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    Personally, I always use a small saucepan of boiling water; I just dip the end of the hose in for a minute or so and it slides over the barb easily. I guess there is a danger if I spill scalding water, but much better temperature control than a heat gun; I know that the hose can handle 100 C so I can't be causing hidden damage that will bite me two years from now. Rubbing bar soap on the barbs helps and is less messy than dish soap. I haven't done the head lines yet but I replaced all the engine cooling seawater hoses and the galley drains and this worked just fine.

Charlie Freeman	s/v Kamaloha	        T37	 #542		         November 2003
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    I've used white vinegar for years.  It's critical to allow the stuff to remain in the hose(s) for a period of time.  I usually let it stay in there for 2 or 3 hours.  Seems to keep the odors under control.

    That, and the new exhaust fan I recently installed in the head...

Tad McDonald							          November 2003
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    I understand that regular use of a gallon of white vinegar is supposed to reduce long-term buildup of calcium salts in the hoses. While this makes good sense, is there any actual data showing that this really works? 

Harvey									          November 2003
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Jane,  
    Thanks, your reply helps a great deal.  That's what I suspected...some flooring will have to come out.  We also have a CC and the floor of the forward settee against the forward stateroom bulkhead is where one bank of batteries are installed.  They will first have to be removed and hopefully the elbows coming out of the holding tank will be directly underneath.  Right now the hoses don't leak or smell.  However, the boat is 20 yrs old and the connections are looking a little crusty, so I might as well plan on it.  I will have to wrestle with the hose a little more to find out if it is truly glassed in or as you found ... a tight fit.  How did you find the integrity of the elbow fittings into the tank?  I am concerned that when removing the hose, yanking or pulling on them might break them out of the tank.

    The holding tank on this boat had not been used for several years and when we put it into service, we accidentally overfilled it.  We did have odor!  Installing a tank alarm took care of that.  The rest is just putting the whole thing back together under the head sink ..i.e., macerator, wye valve, vent loop etc.  We had a wye from the bowl to the tank and a gate right below the deck fitting.  Will probably keep them in that configuration.

    We have been using the better version of white hose.  Sealand, I believe. 

Harbormaster Bill Murray 	        Panhandle Yacht Club	            Coeur d' Alene, Idaho

"Marissa"                   V-42            CC            Blaine, WA	                      November 2003
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Hi Jon,
    Our 1981 V-42 CC was advertised as having a 35-gallon holding tank which seems about right looking at it's V-shape spanning the width of the cabin sole in that area and extending aft a good ways.  The previous owner removed the aft head and sink leaving only a large shower/wet locker.  However, he did leave the head hose leading forward to the holding tank intact capping the end.  

    One of our projects this winter is replacing all of the head/holding tank hose.  We have a Whale pump with cockpit access plate at the cockpit floor which has two gate valves which allow you to pump from either the bilge or the holding tank.  Our Whale pump had a bad leak when we tried to pump our bilge - thankfully we didn't try to pump our holding tank with it at the time as it would've created a disaster in the compartment above the engine.

Michael & Sara Johnson	Rivendell   1981 Tayana 42   CC   		  October 2004
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    Well, I have a question.  Recently, my wife and I purchased a T-42 CC.  I know there is a holding tank forward adjacent to the forward head.  But is there one aft for the aft head?  Any problems with the head lines going forward getting clogged?  Any idea how large the forward holding tank is?

Jon 									    	 October 2004
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    You might consider looking at the sensors from Wema which I have had very good luck with.  They have a holding tank version that has a float on a rod full of magnetic reed switches.  The float and rod are contained within a basket like arrangements to keep solids from inhibiting the movement of the float. 
 
    Installing it would be difficult as it does install in the top of the tank but once installed it does not stick up much at all.  It needs about an inch and a quarter hole cut in the tank, several screw holes drilled around the main hole and then you must get the apparatus itself into the hole.  This last detail may require that you use a short sensor that would not start indicating level until the level gets near the top.  
 
    I have thought about getting a disk of fiberglass material and drilling all the holes and mounting the Wema sensor flanges.  Then it would be possible to cut a slightly large hole than is needed for the sensor in the top of the tank.  The disc with the sensor mounting stuff attached to it could then be epoxied to the top of the tank.  This way the tedious part of the install could be done at home (on a work bench) and the only part of the process you would need to do on the boat would be cutting the hole in the top of the tank and gluing the thing in place. 
 
    This approach would not require cleaning the tank out but you would have to be careful to catch the plug that results from cutting the hole in the top. The plug would certainly be large enough to block the end of the pumpout pipe. I think I have enough room to get a sabre saw into the top of the tank.  a square hole would work and would let the attach a string to the part that might fall into the tank before I cut the hole.  
 
    My boat has enough room to do this installation but standing on my head in the bilge is not my idea of a Sunday recreation so I’m trying to figure out alternatives. 
 
    I have used Wema gauges on my water and fuel tanks on two boats now and have never had a problem with them.  They are among the least expensive option I have found. 
 
    Somewhere I saw a sensor that sticks on the outside of the tank and senses level by either capacitance or ultrasonics.   That would be a good solution from the point of view of easy of installation but I wonder how such a device would deal with bilge water.
 
    The tank tender is expensive, relatively easy to install and reasonably accurate.  It requires that you actively operate the sensor to see what the level is.  As I understand it the tank tender would not warn an untrained guest that he or she had better stop flushing.
 
    I have been thinking about a different approach on my boat.  I have a Lavac head that is emptied by a diaphragm type Henderson pump.  There are several moving parts on this pump where I could attach a magnet that could pass by a reed switch or Hall Effect transistor with each stroke of the pump.  A simple bilge pump counter could keep track of strokes on the pump and that could easily predict when the holding tank would be getting close to full.
 
John Lewis								        November 2004
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    I want to replace liquid level sensors on original built-in fiberglass holding tank in rear keel of T37.  I acquired the vessel and found bottom sensor probes on main water tank had let go, probably due to deterioration by oily bilge water. Worried that rubber insulated sensors in keel holding tank may do same and want to replace while water tank is out and I have easy access. Are new sensors available to purchase and install for holding tank? If not, I could punch them out and glass over the holes, but need to install a different type of sensor arrangement. Not much room to add a top mount sensor due to
engine location and minimal space on top of tank. What have others done in this area?

Kendall Bailey	Dana Point, CA			       	      	       November 2004
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Subject: Holding Tank Vent Line

    The 'vent' on the TY37 is way toooooooo small.  A secondary / large vent line would promote aerobic fermentation which would 'vastly' decrease 'boat smell'.  If there was some way to install a small air injection system (like a fish tank) to the holding tank to 'add air bubbles into that evil fermenting brew' , I'm sure all that 'stink' would disappear.

    All the sanitary hoses on my boat  (head to the holding tank) are now 'permeated' and need replacement; and, stink-proof sanitary hose is super expensive.   Wrap a section of the sanitary hose with saran wrap, wait a few days, remove and 'whiff' the saran - if it stinks, the hose needs replacing.

    I estimate that my holding tank only has about 15 gallons capacity.   Maybe that there are 'concretions' in the bottom.

Rich Hampel								         November 2004
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    I would like more info on the integrated holding tank in my 1976 T37.  What is the volume?  Are they generally of good integrity, or have there been problems with permeation into the laminate walls?  Do most owners use this tank, or bypass to a newer tank installed elsewhere?  The store-bought tank I installed on my last boat stunk up the entire boat, even when brand new and emptied promptly after a weekend's use.  So we are in the habit of seeking out shore side facilities wherever we anchor/moor.

Ian Jarman	 s/v Chaitanya	 1976 Tayana 37 	Ketch #61	        November 2004
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     Ian: The T-37 holding tank is generally reported to be 35 gallons. The only problem I've heard other owners mention is access -- it's virtually impossible to get access to the tank unless you pull the engine or hire a long-armed midget.  Regarding odor, I think you are always going to have to deal with some level of sulfur smell unless you convert to a composting head as we did this season. Some boat owners claim to be able to eliminate odors by providing a high level of cross ventilation to their tanks, but I'm doubtful that such a solution would work for the Tayana tank given the distance between the tank and the vent fitting. I'd be glad to share information about our composting head if you are interested. See www.sun-mar.com/  for general information.

Dayton Eckerson 							        November 2004
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Regis,
    You listed many good tips. When I started cleaning the interior of my 25+ year Tayana I took a hose right in with me and cleaned the inside of the hull and was amazed at all the junk, dirt, and debris that ended up in the bilge. I scrubbed every inch that I could reach with a hospital grade disinfectant cleaner that works on gram - and gram + bacteria, mold, etc.  (Johnson Virex 256) and it helped out tremendously.

    Subsequently, I removed the diesel fuel tank from the bow and the fresh water tank in the bilge and still found saw dust, old screws, bits of wood, coins, etc. that were lodged underneath. I have literally touched every inch of the boat in cleaning it.

    I removed all the old hoses, etc., and they reeked of odor. I agree that the biggest contributor to odors is old fuel and sanitation hoses. Once old hoses are replaced and the interior is really cleaned and kept clean on a regular basis, odors should be minimal.

John Keefe	CT37 	No.63 	ODYSSEA	Youngstown, New York      November 2004
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Subject: Holding tank smells
    One of the big problems Jeanne and I had the first year we owned Walk About was the all pervasive odor in the hold from the sanitation hoses.  These were the original black rubber hoses dating from 1987 which looked just fine but when removed were found to be soft, corroded, and in one short section packed solid with salt chips. The replacement job looked formidable and we waited until Fall to start it.  We stripped out the old hoses but first tied messenger lines to help haul the new hose through the routing under the sole.  We used 70 feet of Sealand Odor-safe vinyl hose from Defender which we had to heat to bend. A small (900W) heat gun made for shrink tubing worked great. 
    We rebuilt the midship selector manifold with new bronze ball valves but replaced the similar overboard/holding valve arrangement with a new plastic three-way valve with lockout.  For hose-to-adaptor sealant, we used 3M 4200 instead of the original polysulfide.  The hardest part of the whole job was to retie the new hoses to the sole cross members with heavy duty cable ties.  The Taiwanese must have tiny arms to get in there.  Now after three weekends afloat and one pumpout, the job seems to be a success, the head pumps effortlessly, the sewer odors are gone and now all we smell is a faint aroma of diesel - directing us to yet another project…
Bob Kirbach	Walk About	(T37	#538	 on Lake Champlain 		      June 2005
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    We have replaced the hoses some time ago. The best system that we found was to disconnect one end, duct tape very well to the end of the new one and alternately feed/pull new hose thru with other. The areas that we had trouble in were under the port side where tayana had used a plastic tie (I cut it) and the worst was from the deck pumpout to the tank below the engine. I had to enlarge the hole in the lazarette locker "floor" to accommodate new hose. We used the more expensive white vinyl, as I didn't want to do this again. 
 
    Recently, the "clunk" thread was us. It ended up being the damper plate between the engine and the transmission. We had the engine pulled. 
 
    While it was out, I had noticed that the stainless steel pickup tubes to our holding tank were corroding thru. I used a drill and a rotary rasp to route out the top of the tank. This ended up being a rectangular shaped cutout about 7" X 12" or so, to include the pickup, vent and inlet stainless. We contacted McMaster and had stainless plate, elbow, tee and pipe elbow, along with 3' of 1 1/2" SS tube sent to a friend of mine that does fabrication.
 
    We did find that the tubes were corroding thru, not allowing a full seal on the 1 1/2" hoses. The original pickup tube was 10" ABOVE the bottom of the tank...what a mess. The original vent hose design is very small opening; I used a 3/4" SS pipe elbow and a barb to pipe connection.
 
    I have many pics of the original, and can send if you wish. A lot of work, but now absolutely NO smells!
 
Mark & Joan		S/V Querencia		 T37				       July 2005
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Subject: Holding tank leak into bilge cavity 

   Just thought I'd pass this along regarding the integral holding tank located under the engine.

    I had my boat on the hard with the holding tank empty and noticed a very small amount of water seepage in the bottom of the bilge after I had sucked the bilge dry the day before using a wet/dry vac.  I sucked it dry again. The seepage reappeared.  I did this a number of times and the same thing happened.  The water was not from any leaks due to rain, etc. but was seeping up from the bottom of the bilge just ahead of the holding tank. There were no cracks in the fiberglass or anything like that because I was able to get down into the bilge as the water tank and engine were removed so I was able to closely inspect the area. I then drilled a small shallow depression into the floor of the bilge and found that the small depression I made filled up with a foul liquid.

    After thinking about it I decided to drill a small hole into the encapsulated ballast area from outside the hull very low and at the aft end of the enclosed cavity. As soon as I drilled through into the cavity a gush of the foulest smelling liquid came pouring out. I'd say about 5 gallons came out of the cavity and it could only have come from the holding tank leaking into the ballast cavity.

    Using a made up adapter I hooked up my wet/dry vac and evacuated the cavity for many, many hours and let it air out (hole was left open to the air) for many months while I was working on my boat. In addition, I opened up the top of the holding tank and let it dry out for a long time then filled it full of foam (2 part mix) until it was completely filled up. I then glassed up the access hole in the top of the tank and coated the entire outside of the tank with epoxy resin. I don't like integral tanks and have elected to use a stand alone poly tank for the holding tank.

    I believe that over the years the holding tank slowly leaked into the enclosed ballast area. Anyway, I thought I'd pass this along in case anyone experiences the same thing.

Regards, John Keefe								       July 2005
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    I am very happy to be a proud owner of my vessel.  She is a 1982, Hull # TYA373131181.  Where is the Holding tank?

    Okay, here is the story.  I went to pump out my boat and nothing came out.  It appeared as though the pump out pipe was laying in my bilge [Shocked], then I realized the previous owner had replaced the black Iron Water Tank with a customized 100-gallon plastic one.  I took a look at the schematics of the original plumbing design and it appears as though the holding tank was removed from the bilge and the water tank is now in its place.  Would any reasonable yacht repairman do such an thing or am I just lost?

Romeo (?) 									  January 2006
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Subject: Holding tank location and valves

    The (original) holding tank is *under the engine* and was 'molded-in' to the aft section of the keel cavity.  The pump out deck plate is normally on the port side deck adjacent to the side the cockpit. There is usually a ball valve (mounted on the aft bulkhead in the 'lazarette/sail locker) ... on the pump out hose and yours may be 'closed'.  The vent line to the holding tank is teeeeeeeeny and is easily blocked (.... and should eventually be replaced with a much larger vent line).
 
    Especially if the boat was used in salt water, the contents of the holding tank may now be 'concrete'. The mixture of salt water and urine makes - "carbonate rocks" .... and will need to be 'pickled' with either acid (dangerous) or a commercial boiler descaling compound such as "Marsolve' or "Rydlyme" to dissolve the 'rocks'. So, if your holding tank capacity is much less than ~15 gallons, be prepared to 'excavate'/de-scale.  Why I mention the 'rocks' is that there may be a possibility that the 'rocks' may have formed inside the lower section of the pump-out hose inside the tank thus blocking it.  You simply have to fresh water flush a holding tank every other 'fill' or the 'rocks' can surely sometimes 'grow' to immense size - depending on what the crew/you eat/drink. 

Rich Hampel									 January 2006
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    Before you make major changes of that sort, I would first check the condition of all the hoses that converge onto the top of the holding tank.  We found that most of the hose clamps were corroded, and at least one of the hoses was nearly completely blocked.  It takes a bit of gymnastics to reach under and manipulate the hoses and clamps, but it is worth it. Also check the venting line that runs to the port side of the hull from the holding tank. Our tank seemed to fill very quickly. Turned out that the problem was that the Zinc venting fitting was corroded and plugged, preventing me from pumping out most of the contents. After disconnecting the vent line from the fitting (temporarily) my holding tank volume instantly increased to about 15 or 20 gallons. I then replace the hull  fitting with one made of stainless.

We also then added some enzyme stuff to break up the cred that was precipitated at the bottom of the tank, and flushed through fresh water about 6-8 times.  Also added a gallon of vinegar to the head and pumped it back to the holding tank to help break up some of the calcium deposits.

regards, Harvey								  January 2006
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    Sounds like you're ready to spend the big bucks on this (from Defender.com):

Odor-safe Hose
Item # : 502434
1-1/2", White
Manufacturer: SEALAND
Model Number: 306342871
Our Price: $7.99

    I'm told the plain white hose is the same thing for 1/3rd the price; I wasn't brave or cheap enough to try the cheap stuff.

Roger										February 2006
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Roger,
    If they still have some Odor-Safe in stock, it would be a couple of years old, minimum, as that's how long Sealand hasn't had it.  They later marketed the best they could do, Odor-Safe Plus.  Odor-Safe is, indeed, the good stuff.  Odor-Safe Plus isn't.  Much better than 148, but not the same as Odor-Safe or Aussiglobe (direct import from the maker in OZ).   However, http://aussieglobe.com will sell you the same stuff (not private labeled) at about $5 a foot.

Skip		 								February 2006
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Subject: Cleaning out hoses in the head

John,
    Use Marsolve (www.marsolve.com).  It is the same stuff used to clean out the carbonates from engine internals ..... the same stuff that forms in the hoses.  Uric acid mixed with seawater causes the carbonates to 'drop out' of solution and form scale, just like heating sea water above 150 degrees F.  Use it in your head hoses then use what’s left over to descale your heat exchanger and exhaust manifold.  I don’t know the  action/reaction on porcelain .... so you might either ask the formulator of the stuff or quickly rinse with a bit of water.  If you cant find Marsolve, try Rydlyme ... both are biodegradable commercial boiler descalers.

Rich Hampel									   March 2006
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